Dear readers here, thanks a lot for your presence.

Now, I decided to challenge Stimbo to exchange thoughts with me on God exists or not, because I was thinking that I could learn something from her, on how atheists explain babies coming forth from papa and mama, without causation.

It turns out that she is not interested, so I will resume my exchange with Simon Moon.


Okay, Simon, we were talking about causation, and you are of the idea that you came forth from the material cause of molecules re-arranging themselves, and they thus caused you to come forth to existence and life, not your papa and mama.

And I was asking you whether you use the word cause in its proper sense or tell me, in what sense of the word cause you are using it, when you tell me that you come forth from molecules re-arranging themselves, not from your papa and mama.

From my part, I am of the certainty that your papa and mama caused you to come forth into existence and life.

There, that was where we were when I was waiting for you to resume our talk, because at one point you said that you were done with me, etc...


Okay dear readers, let us all sit back and see what is going to happen, with my readiness to resume my talk with Simon Moon.

The trouble is that Simon takes time to react to me, while in the meantime I think that I could input some ideas in this thread of mine, like that atheists are into raving mad foul language and attacking the person of their debate opponents, because they are in defiance, and also they are in an inner conflict, both of which factors make them resort to raving mad foul language and personal attacks against their debate opponents.

Of course I am talking about what I call and they are now a well conspicuous sub-group of atheists, namely, internet atheists.


Dear readers here, may I just invite you to read my proof for God existing, in concept as first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning, see ANNEX 2; ANNEX 1 is the post from Stimbo indicating as I read it that she is not accepting my challenge to talk with me on God exists or not, in particular from the evidence of babies coming to existence and life from their papas and mamas,

Of course Stimbo could change her mind, and I am always ready, in which case then I will have to tell Simon to just wait until I am through with Stimbo: you see, dear readers here, Stimbo is a moderator of posts, so she must be a better poster to talk with, that is the assumption from yours truly – only.


ANNEX 1

Quote:Stimbo  
Administrator and Prophet-in-residence
#915
RE: I am a theist, what do you think of my proof for God existing?
1 hour ago (This post was last modified: 1 hour ago by Stimbo.)
_________

To be honest, I never even noticed this "challenge". I usually just skim past this guy's drivel to get to something interesting. And correctly formatted without someone having to kick him up the arse about it.

ANNEX 2

Quote:Mariosep  
Joined: 24th October 2016
Reputation: 2
Warning Level: 0%
#1
 
I am a theist, what do you think of my proof for God existing?
24th October 2016, 17:27
________________


This is my proof for God existing.

1. Formulate the information of the concept of God, thus:
"God in concept is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning."

2. Look for instances of causation in reality outside of concepts in our mind.

---

3. We find countless examples of causation in reality outside of concepts in our mind.

4. From the countless instances of causation in reality, we infer to the existence of a first and ultimate cause.

5. We find that the first and ultimate cause of all instances of causation in reality corresponds to our information on the concept of God, namely, the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.

6. Conclusion: God exists in concept as first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.


What do you think about my proof for the existence of God?

---

(November 21, 2016 at 4:22 pm)Mariosep Wrote: Now, I decided to challenge Stimbo to exchange thoughts with me on God exists or not, because I was thinking that I could learn something from her, on how atheists explain babies coming forth from papa and mama, without causation.

Just in case this was a euphemism for "I propositioned Stimbo for sex" I want to point out that it's "he," not "she."

That's alright, we'll wait for your hands to stop shaking and then you may proceed with your next post.

I'm not fussy, I'll take whatever I can get.

Since you are a fan of science, logic and common sense that I recommend you read this book.  

New proofs for the existence of God by Robert Spitzer, eerdmans publishing.

Do you mean, dear Stimbo, that with these words from your latest post here, namely:

"I'm not fussy, I'll take whatever I can get."

that you are accepting my challenge for us two to exchange thoughts on God exists or not, in particular with babies from my part as evidence of causation all the way to God, in concept as first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning?

Please reply with a clear acceptance or non-acceptance of my challenge.

Like this:

"To Mariosep, I [you] accept your [Mariosep's] challenge, please take the initiative to explain how from babies you infer all the way to God, in concept as you put it: God in concept is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe..."

"That is from your [Mariosep's] part, please don't think that I am concurring with you on the concept of God from your part."

Tell you what, dear Stimbo,  whatever you desire how to get started with us two in my challenge and your acceptance, how you want us to get started, you take the initiative or tell me I take the initiative.

When I take the initiative, I will start with the information which you will read below so that you now have in your mind, my information on my concept of God - though of course you don't need to accept it, just that it is information only and it is in your mind: otherwise how can we at all get into our joinder of issue, if you will not even take materially in linguistic understanding the information from me on my concept of God?

Namely: God in concept is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything woth a beginning.

Quote:Stimbo Offline
Administrator and Prophet-in-residence
#923
RE: I am a theist, what do you think of my proof for God existing?
1 hour ago
____________________


I'm not fussy, I'll take whatever I can get.

Huh. Turns out he was propositioning you, Stim. Maybe he's a seminary student?

(November 21, 2016 at 4:50 pm)The Joker Wrote: Since you are a fan of science, logic and common sense that I recommend you read this book.  

New proofs for the existence of God by Robert Spitzer, eerdmans publishing.

I was given that book by a relative to read.

The title is a misrepresentation, in that, it does not contain anything new. It is just loaded with more rehashing of the same old arguments (Cosmological, teleological, etc), which have long been refuted. What science it does contain, is misinterpreted.

And even if the arguments were valid and sound (they're not), they do not lead to the conclusion for the existence of any specific god or gods.

Funny, that the actual scientists that work in the scientific fields that Spitzer referenced in his book, are over 72% atheist. Why don't the people that have dedicated their lives, work in these fields, and actually understand the science (unlike Spitzer), come to the same conclusions as Spitzer?

(November 21, 2016 at 6:07 pm)Tonus Wrote: Huh.  Turns out he was propositioning you, Stim.  Maybe he's a seminary student?

Well if its "seminary" he wants, I've got plenty in reserve. OTOH, my standards aren't quite that low yet.

(November 21, 2016 at 6:05 pm)Mariosep Wrote: Do you mean, dear Stimbo, that with these words from your latest post here, namely:

"I'm not fussy, I'll take whatever I can get."

that you are accepting my challenge for us two to exchange thoughts on God exists or not, in particular with babies from my part as evidence of causation all the way to God, in concept as first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning?

Humorless automaton detected. I repeat...humorless automaton detected.

Well, I still have not seen the clear acceptance of my challenge by Stimbo.

So, I will just leave now for the present until tomorrow, and see whether tomorrow she puts in a clear acceptance of my challenge or puts in a clear refusal to accept my challenge.

If tomorrow she does not express acceptance nor refusal, then I will take it that she is still thinking indefinitely to accept or to refuse.

So, addressing Stimbo, you can continue indefinitely to not express a clear acceptance of my challenge or a clear refusal of my challenge, but the challenge is always present, and you can accept or refuse at your convenience, as long as I am still in this thread and still in this forum.


Now, dear readers here, I like to bring to your thinking this statement from myself, of course it is not any insight that others have not come to, except that I have put it in my own peculiar formulation, here as follows below; and I have repeated it several times in this thread because it is a good platform for the determination of God exists or not.

"The default status of the totality of reality is existence."

Now, how do we get to know existence?

We get to know existence from experience, this is the avenue by which we come to know also our each one's individual self-existence by our experience of consciousness, which consciousness itself is a habitual experience when we are in a state of consciousness.

Now, when we get together and experience each other's existence, then we get to know the existence of others like ourselves, existing in, by, through, from, and with our each one's experience of for example the physical presence of each one by himself and of everyone's else physical presence.

Then we all get to know the existence of things outside of ourselves humans, by again experiencing them, like seeing and touching the trees, etc., and seeing the sun in the daytime sky, and the moon in the night sky.

All these experiences of existence are a part of the default status of the totality of reality which is existence.

How does that lead us to come to the existence of God, in concept as first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning?

Well, dear readers here, as you are and I appreciate that very much, always reading this thread, I propose that you think on truths, facts, logic, and the history of ideas, that will lead you to see that all our experiences of existence are the evidence of the existence of God, in concept as first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning.


And tomorrow, as I can see that Stimbo will not be forthcoming with her clear acceptance and neither her clear refusal to accept my challenge, I will take up with Simon, to resume our exchange.

Of course I will also take notice of the raving mad foul language and personal attacks from atheists here, that is the inevitable risk of entering into exchange of thoughts with internet atheists.