(January 8, 2017 at 4:19 am)robvalue Wrote: Hello, welcome

I'd recommend checking out this video, it gives an idea of how people end up the way they do. I share your bewilderment, and being a part of this forum has been a journey for me towards trying to understand the mindset of theists.

Thanks for that.  I recently watch a Richard Carrier video about the history of christianity.  In the Q&A segment near the end, a lady asked why there are so many Atheists when there are so many more others who seem to be instinctively drawn into and cling to Theism.  Richard didn't have a pat answer and suggested that there are likely multiple reasons and factors.  The gist seems to be that the Atheists' mind just works different and the psychologists quiet haven't yet figured out exactly why...

No problem

I think some people are naturally sceptical and are constantly questioning things, and some people are comfortable taking things as they are presented. If you're in the former category, it's going to take a lot of very aggressive indoctrination to subdue you enough so that you don't think your way out of it.

The thing is, there are probably millions of atheists worldwide who have no option but to pretend to be religious theists, because of the consequences they will suffer if they don't.

I've noticed some people are very suggestible, and vulnerable to logical fallacies and confirmation bias. This makes them perfect prey for religion. I'm sure there are evolutionary reasons for this, because it's historically been of some benefit to "go with the flow".

Quote:Be respectful to CL, or I will be forced to hit you with a very large stick... 

TBH, I give Theists the same respect I'd give anyone who believes in anything supernatural.  I don't say this to be deliberately or intentionally rude or belligerent.  That's just honestly the way that I feel.  I'm new to this forum and I am hoping that honesty and truthfulness trumps sparing the feelings of others.  If that isn't the case then there really isn't much point in me posting here.

I wanted to find a forum were I can be truthful without necessarily being polite...

(BTW, being told that I'm "closed minded" because I'm unable to believe in a magical, invisible flying sky-daddy for me is a massive personal insult. But as an Atheist I've just learned to suck it up.)

Well, I think it's good to differentiate the person from the beliefs.

I'll happily say all religious beliefs are a load of stupid shit. But I don't call religious people stupid. I understand that people have reasons for believing the way they do. They must do, because otherwise they wouldn't believe it. Of course, I'm unlikely to find those reasons persuasive, but neither will they find my objections persuasive.

I figure that as long as people aren't hurting others or forcing their beliefs on them, we can all get along. There's no need to attack individuals or start arguments with them if they don't want to debate something. I speak out in general against the poor reasoning behind religious beliefs and the harm it does; and I support rational thought, compassion and education. The chips can then fall where they may.

Having said that, you're not going to banned for being blunt here, unless you cross the line into regularly trolling or flaming (as per the forum rules). It's pretty relaxed. You'll get warned if this does happen, before getting banned. People don't generally get instantly banned unless they do something absolutely heinous.

Rob, tell me how our beloved Min can get away with calling LittleRik a fucktard on a daily basis, but Autolite looks at a theist the wrong way and we're all over him...

It's a tricky one isn't it...

Haha well, as forum members you're free to call people out however you see fit. I would guess that, in this case, it's because CL is a polite and respectful member on the whole, and certain "other people" are extremely obnoxious and give back more than they get.

(January 8, 2017 at 7:17 am)ignoramus Wrote: Rob, tell me how our beloved Min can get away with calling LittleRik a fucktard on a daily basis, but Autolite looks at a theist the wrong way and we're all over him...

It's a tricky one isn't it...

TBH, I don't even read Min's posts anymore. I've wasted so many fucks before and I cherish the few I have left. I don't feel like wasting them on that.

I think the main reason is CL doesn't preach. She'll answer questions honestly if asked and the mob attacks her anyway?
I suppose that's the cost of sleeping with the enemy (being on an atheist forum).

I'd like to ask Auto if he visits religious forums ... I know we are a lot more forgiving here because frankly, we are not afraid of counter arguments, in fact we encourage them. Religious forums only seem to embrace and respond to sheeple, no matter how polite the atheist is. They find him/her threatening.

(January 8, 2017 at 6:48 am)Autolite Wrote:

(January 8, 2017 at 4:19 am)robvalue Wrote: Hello, welcome

I'd recommend checking out this video, it gives an idea of how people end up the way they do. I share your bewilderment, and being a part of this forum has been a journey for me towards trying to understand the mindset of theists.

Thanks for that.  I recently watch a Richard Carrier video about the history of christianity.  In the Q&A segment near the end, a lady asked why there are so many Atheists when there are so many more others who seem to be instinctively drawn into and cling to Theism.  Richard didn't have a pat answer and suggested that there are likely multiple reasons and factors.  The gist seems to be that the Atheists' mind just works different and the psychologists quiet haven't yet figured out exactly why...

Yes we do know why. I'd suggest you read "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins. 

Two other books as well both by Victor Stenger, "God The Failed Hypothesis" and "The New Atheism". All three go into the scientific reasons biology wise and and science wise. 

The God Delusion explains in evolutionary terms where the "god of the gaps" is coming from. It literally stems from life not having the time always to slow down and pragmatically compare and test and observe what is going on.  Our brains evolved with neurological pathways based on our perceptions and while we do have the ability to figure things out, in antiquity we simply gap filled. Much like a dog will falsely bark at a reflection in the mirror. Or like a deer will challenge it's reflection in a window. 

Gap filling is evolutionary, even now as you read this, your brain like a computer, is observing things even when you are not deliberately thinking about it.

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(January 7, 2017 at 7:05 pm)Autolite Wrote: 'Catholic Lady' thinks I'm narrow minded. I don't believe in leprechauns, unicorns or the Tooth Fairy either so perhaps she has a point...

To be fair to her, unfortunately a majority of 7 billion of our fellow humans think like this. What she doesn't get, that Muslims and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists ect ect don't get, is that we are not closed minded. If our species never questioned social norms, our species never would have left the caves.

What the Church did to Galileo was closed minded. What the Church did to non Christians was closed minded. What theocracies like Iran and Saudi Arabia do to Christians and minority Muslims, what Sunnis do to Shiites, what Hindus do to anyone who kills a cow, that is closed minded. 

CL, it isn't close minded one bit to ditch old claims. It isn't hard for you to say slavery was bad, that was justified by religious people. It isn't hard for you to reject ISIS is it? 

CL, Autoite isn't being narrow minded. Ditching old claims and the willingness to be wrong and the willingness to want to find scientific fact is how we now have modern medicine, how we landed an object on Mars. Why we have GPS, and why we are trying to find cures for AIDS and cancer.

We aren't trying to in the least suggest religion be forced out of existence by use of violence one bit. But if you talk about it with us CL why should you fear us being blunt with you? 

Take his quote above, and replace leprechauns or unicorns or Tooth Fairy with other deity claims you rightfully reject.

"I don't believe in Allah"
"I don't believe in Yahweh"
"I don't believe in Apollo"
"I don't believe in Horus"
"I don't believe in Bhrama"

Your having the same fear of being wrong as other people with other religions. The only difference between the atheist and the theist is that we reject one more god claim than you do. Figure out why you rightfully reject all other claims, then you can understand why we reject your claim as well.

I think religious people are crazy and I agree with you that it's like living in Alice in wonderland.

I deal with it by just ignoring it really but it can be difficult.

Doesn't everyone have to deal with a similar thing with everybody?

Loads of people in my work love the British royal family and I feel like I'm living in Alice in wonderland when I hear people talk about the queen doing a great job. She's 90 but still doing a great job doing what she does and I love the colours she's wearing.

Thinking that the queen is doing a job is in the same realms of a virgin giving birth to the son of god.

I was just chatting about that to a Christian Nigerian and we completely agree on that topic but he'd probably think I was insane for not believing in God and i think he's insane for believing in the god and Jesus.

I think the bottom line is that there's always something more interesting to talk about than disagreements and there's no choice but to deal with crazy people.

And if you want to chat about your political or religious disagreements and not get fired or punched in the face then you should come on a forum, which is pretty much the best place to vent it out.