Quote:I actually talked to an intelligent, non-argumentative theist the other day.

Before Xmas, a couple of young female JW's stopped by to have a chat.  I told them from the very start that I was an Atheist and they actually seemed more interested in listening to me talk about Atheism than they were in telling me about Jesus.

Anyhow, at one point I asked the older JW if she honestly, actually believed the 'Noah's Ark' story.  She told me that the story must absolutely be true because "they've actually found a piece of the Ark"!

I guess you just can't beat an iron-clad argument like that....

Auto: It sounds like, in your case, the indoctrination didn't take. Think of it like a computer virus. It never properly took over your system. Your natural scepticism acted as an anti-virus.

For people who perhaps aren't as sceptical, or got more aggressively indoctrinated, it gets into their brain and it takes a strong presence. The brain then naturally defends its strongly held beliefs, by throwing up any objection at all rather than having to consider the belief might be wrong.

I'm just trying to explain scientifically what is going on with people. I agree that on the surface it is insane that a grown adult can't see through the nonsense of religion. But it's not as simple as that, the virus is insidious and it pulls the person heavily into delusion. So much so that it can make them think that those not in their religion are the deluded ones.

I think that randomly debating theists is usually a waste of time, unless they are genuinely interested in listening and examining their beliefs. But debating on the internet is more worthwhile, because the broken nature of their position is clear for all the viewers to see.

(January 7, 2017 at 4:35 pm)Autolite Wrote: I would like to know how you other Atheists deal with and view Theists?

I don't really deal with or view a theists in a particular way. I'm more likely to judge one by the personality they present to me more so than their religious views. 

Quote:A few weeks ago a christian neighbour of mine made a religious comment so profoundly absurd and ridiculous that it almost sent me into shock.  How do you cope knowing that many so people are this messed up? 

I typically don't care. I'm probably the only nonbeliever in my family (i've yet to meet another member of my family that admits to being a nonbeliever) and my family has all kinds of believes that i find silly. I don't view them as messed up. I can understand why they believe in what they do. I was once the same way. I don't see myself as greater or wiser for choosing my own path. If anything i would find it more interesting if my family had a more diverse set of beliefs. Like more atheist, some Hinduism, a few Buddhist, i just think it would be more interesting that way.

Quote:I don't view them as messed up.

I see that there are quite a few here who feel the same way.  If you don't see belief in non-existing critters being 'messed-up' then what then?  Can you give me an example of what you would consider to be a delusional belief???

(January 11, 2017 at 5:19 am)Autolite Wrote:

Quote:I don't view them as messed up.

I see that there are quite a few here who feel the same way.  If you don't see belief in non-existing critters being 'messed-up' then what then?  Can you give me an example of what you would consider to be a delusional belief???

I could give many examples if i wanted to. But it wouldn't have anything to do with them being a messed up person. A believer can live a perfectly normal life while a nonbeliever can be a cold blooded killer. Who's more messed up? Two people can believe in the same religion, one can use it to create peace while the other can use it to create violence. Being "messed up" goes deeper than beliefs.

People are generally extremely susceptible to the appeal to popularity, and so tend to conform. This makes it more understandable to be religious than to believe some other equally absurd thing in isolation. It's illogical, but it's human. As has been mentioned, the human brain is fantastic at compartmentalising.

I'm sure some theists don't really believe a lot of what they say they believe. It's just emotionally comforting, and they don't want to think about it too hard. When it comes down to it, some people prefer what is comfortable to what is true.

I'm not "excusing" absurd beliefs, I'm just explaining why they don't automatically make someone crazy. There's not necessarily anything fundamentally wrong with their brain. In most cases, there won't be. It's just one specific area that has been corrupted. This is a journey of understanding I've been on since I joined this forum. When I first started, I felt the same as you. I'll still stand up and say these beliefs are ridiculous and potentially harmful, but I won't write a person off for having them.

Well when I say 'messed-up', I'm talking about the mental illness of being delusional. IIRC, the medical definition of a delusion is " an unsubstantiated irrational belief not shared within one's community". Now of course religion does not meet the medical definition of 'delusion' because it is a 'shared' belief.

However, does anyone here disagree with this definition. Does anyone claim that being delusional is not a mental illness? Do we all agree that there are in fact people who are delusional???

(January 11, 2017 at 10:50 am)Autolite Wrote: Well when I say 'messed-up', I'm talking about the mental illness of being delusional.  IIRC, the medical definition of a delusion is " an unsubstantiated irrational belief not shared within one's community". Now of course religion does not meet the medical definition of 'delusion' because it is a 'shared' belief.

However, does anyone here disagree with this definition.  Does anyone claim that being delusional is not a mental illness?  Do we all agree that there are in fact people who are delusional???

Per the medical definition of "delusional" you stated above, it is not. Unless you want to change that definition. You seem precisely like the type of person who thinks himself big enough to go around changing the definition of medical terms so that you can diagnose everyone who is unlike you as being mentally ill. Get over yourself.

(January 10, 2017 at 6:25 pm)Autolite Wrote:

Quote:I actually talked to an intelligent, non-argumentative theist the other day.

Before Xmas, a couple of young female JW's stopped by to have a chat.  I told them from the very start that I was an Atheist and they actually seemed more interested in listening to me talk about Atheism than they were in telling me about Jesus.

Anyhow, at one point I asked the older JW if she honestly, actually believed the 'Noah's Ark' story.  She told me that the story must absolutely be true because "they've actually found a piece of the Ark"!

I guess you just can't beat an iron-clad argument like that....

That's the most annoying thing about religion.  Once you're all-in, anything someone in the church tells you is absolute truth until proven otherwise beyond any ability to ignore.  After all, why would Mr. Jones lie to me?  Jim is a good, Christian man.

Quote:"A delusion is an unshakable belief in something untrue. These irrational beliefs defy normal reasoning, and remain firm even when overwhelming proof is presented to dispute them. Delusions are distinct from culturally or religiously based beliefs that may be seen as untrue by outsiders."

http://medical-dictionary.thefreediction.../Delusions