No you won't, you're incapable. You need to deal with your own internal shit before you go about advising others.

A story I like to tell when someone is very pushy on me burning in Hell fits this topic thread well. I dont tell it to every fundy I meet, because I prefer to pick and choose my fights. This particular opinionated scenario of mine is a wild card I hold up my sleeve for the particularly diabolical fundies:

"I believe if, when I die, and I happen to see YOUR type of god standing before me..YOUR Jesus...YOUR Jehovah...standing in judgement over the masses, that I will immediately run up to that God and bid him to explain his lack of communication. Why so quiet? Why allow such violent and disturbed people to claim to speak for you? As soon as this God tries to answer, I will turn around and scream "DEATH TO THE TYRANT!!!" and bum rush this evil god with hopefully as many willing people at my back as possible. I will then pick your pathetic god up over my head and toss him into the very Hell he created to torture his own creation in for his sadistic pleasure...and I would let him stay in Hell for about 2 minutes. Maybe even less. I would reach my hand into that flame and pull Jehovah from it. Yes, I will show kindness and forgiveness. I will then allow those who are in the afterlife to choose what ever they wanted to do."

Hey..if they can make up bullshit and throw out wild claims suggesting that belief is all one need to justify them..then why can I not also toss out some bullshit unto the table as well?

(July 9, 2011 at 12:00 am)Pel Wrote: Again I am not picking on you but you have avoided my very important questions I have asked you in past Rayaan. Otherwise I think you are a good person, atleast you comunicate with atheists and others wich is in a way against parts of Islamic teachings.

I don't think that communicating with atheists is against Islamic teachings. I didn't see that anywhere.

But here's the question that you wanted me to answer:

(July 8, 2011 at 8:48 pm)Pel Wrote: I have a question for you Rayaan and that is were are your parents from and were do you live now? What's you background?

Bangladesh, and I've been living in the United States for the past 17 years. Also, I was an atheist at one time but then my faith re-emerged one day.

Keep working on it, Rayaan....maybe you'll come to your senses again!

Im with Min on this one... Keep asking good questions. Bare minimum any use of freethought in areas of personal belief is a wise move regardless.

(July 9, 2011 at 4:24 pm)bbrettle Wrote: this .... jesus = freewill thing.... is nothing more than people from the united states making jesus/god seem like a choice...

Well, you know, democratic process and all that. And like Stalin said, the one who counts the votes has all the power. Go Diebold.
James. Pagan. There are other choices besides Christian.

(July 9, 2011 at 9:27 pm)Rayaan Wrote: I was an atheist at one time but then my faith re-emerged one day.

Such a shame to lose a good mind to a clearly ridiculous old book.


I'll never understand why people throw freedom away and voluntarily place shackles on themselves.

(July 9, 2011 at 9:27 pm)Rayaan Wrote:

(July 9, 2011 at 12:00 am)Pel Wrote: Again I am not picking on you but you have avoided my very important questions I have asked you in past Rayaan. Otherwise I think you are a good person, atleast you comunicate with atheists and others wich is in a way against parts of Islamic teachings.

I don't think that communicating with atheists is against Islamic teachings. I didn't see that anywhere.

But here's the question that you wanted me to answer:

(July 8, 2011 at 8:48 pm)Pel Wrote: I have a question for you Rayaan and that is were are your parents from and were do you live now? What's you background?

Bangladesh, and I've been living in the United States for the past 17 years. Also, I was an atheist at one time but then my faith re-emerged one day.

Thanks for answering my question Rayaan. I don't know nothing about Bangladesh but I know that USA doesn't have sharia and its a democratic country with secular constitution and that's why I believe you are living there.

Over here in Melbourne a lot of Muslims came as refugees, they escaped from the wars in their native countries. They came here Australia gives them apartments to live in wich are very cheap, Australia gives them money even if they don't won't to work and these same people got done for trying to cary out terorist attacks.

A lots of people leave Muslim countries because they are por and then they become big Muslims and abuse democracy. That's not right.
Saudi Arabia might have the money but that's only because of oil.

Rayaan, last night I was with some sufis and I have a lots of Muslim friends but only the good ones who are not religious at all.

Once you become dogmatic about quran and the hadith you are bound to go down the wrong path. But that's only my opinion.

As far as comunication with the atheists I am preaty sure that the quran says that once someone makes fun out of your religion not to sit with them any more till they change the conversation. Wich means you should never have anything to do with this forum. It's unreasonable and its not the best book ever writen.

You don't have to be an atheist, you can have your personal beliefs and they can be anything. I am trying to free you from something burdensome and false for your own sake. I know its hard especially if all the people around you a religious.

In the end you didn't pick a Muslim country to live in wich brings me to another question and that us why didn't you emigrate to a Muslim country like Pakistan for instance? And why did you or your parents go to a secular country namely the USA.

Thanks

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I just want to ad something Rayaan and that is if you have to believe in the quran and the hadis don't take it literaly. Use it as a general guide, concentrate on the good stuff, be liberal.

(July 9, 2011 at 6:22 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(July 9, 2011 at 4:24 pm)bbrettle Wrote: this .... jesus = freewill thing.... is nothing more than people from the united states making jesus/god seem like a choice...

if god is real he an abusive, favoritive jerk

http://www.worldhunger.org/articles/Lear...202002.htm

Seven on one I got ya just where I want you. When I get a little time I'll answer your comments.

great i look forward to hearing it.

(July 9, 2011 at 8:39 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: A story I like to tell when someone is very pushy on me burning in Hell fits this topic thread well. I dont tell it to every fundy I meet, because I prefer to pick and choose my fights. This particular opinionated scenario of mine is a wild card I hold up my sleeve for the particularly diabolical fundies:

"I believe if, when I die, and I happen to see YOUR type of god standing before me..YOUR Jesus...YOUR Jehovah...standing in judgement over the masses, that I will immediately run up to that God and bid him to explain his lack of communication. Why so quiet? Why allow such violent and disturbed people to claim to speak for you? As soon as this God tries to answer, I will turn around and scream "DEATH TO THE TYRANT!!!" and bum rush this evil god with hopefully as many willing people at my back as possible. I will then pick your pathetic god up over my head and toss him into the very Hell he created to torture his own creation in for his sadistic pleasure...and I would let him stay in Hell for about 2 minutes. Maybe even less. I would reach my hand into that flame and pull Jehovah from it. Yes, I will show kindness and forgiveness. I will then allow those who are in the afterlife to choose what ever they wanted to do."

Hey..if they can make up bullshit and throw out wild claims suggesting that belief is all one need to justify them..then why can I not also toss out some bullshit unto the table as well?

---

(July 9, 2011 at 9:54 am)FaithNoMore Wrote:

(July 9, 2011 at 1:08 am)Godschild Wrote: I believe I've answered this for you before, if not here goes. If you did believe in God would you want Him to make you behave as a robot doing only what He tells you to do and giving you no freedom to make your own decisions...

FNM Wrote:If it meant living with no evil, sign me up.

To make one bend to the will of God would be evil, that's why you have freewill.

Godschild Wrote:...Man would have demanded freewill if God had not give it at the start,

FNM Wrote:And why would god have to bend to any demands that humans make?

I did not say God would bend to the demands of humans, it would be human nature to demand things from God, it happens all the time. Someone said (an atheist on this forum) that when they prayed for something and did not get it they got upset, that is no different than demanding something from God. Christians do it all the time I'm sure.

Godschild Wrote:...freewill came with a debt and ultimately God himself paid the price for that debt because we were unable to, now that is true love.

FNM Wrote:WTF?

I know what the answer says, I do not understand why you gave that answer unless you did not understand what I stated. Because God is omniscient and omnipresent He knows the future, He knew when He created us, that is humanity, that we would choose to sin, that is disobey Him, there would be a price to pay for that sin, so instead of letting all of humanity choose the way of hell He gave His life to redeem those who would believe in what He has done.

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(July 9, 2011 at 9:57 am)Napoleon Wrote:

(July 8, 2011 at 7:12 pm)Godschild Wrote: You have joined him and will pay the price unless... well you know, want preach.

Bring.

It.

On.

Against the rules.

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(July 9, 2011 at 10:54 am)Ace Otana Wrote:

Quote:freewill came with a debt and ultimately God himself paid the price for that debt because we were unable to, now that is true love.

How can there be any fucking debt? God's the one who created everything, he's all powerful. This makes absolutely no sense at all! So who's the price maker? Also, how did god pay off the so-called debt?

Makes no sense at all. Not one lick of sense.

Makes all the sense in the world to christians, God paid the debt by giving His life for our redemption, the debt that need to be paid would be the debt of sin. Righteousness is the standard by which the debt was set. Christ bore the sins of the whole of humanity, that's what killed the divine part of Christ the human side died from the treatment He received at the hands of the Romans, this is how the debt was paid. God being all powerful does not mean He will abuse that power, that would be against His nature. I'm sorry you can not understand this and as I said before I did not come to this forum to try and make anyone understand this, that would be against the rules. It's not my fault that this forum put up a barrier to protect nonbelievers.