Let me state beforehand that I know next to nothing about Heroin addiction apart from the usual stereotypes.

Are you familiar with the (imho mostly excellent) American Sherlock Holmes reinterpretation "Elementary" starring Lucy Liu as a female Dr. Watson? The writers decided to make Holmes a recovering Heroin addict who is constantly fighting his demons parallel to the main story ark, and his struggle with staying sober is addressed regularly. In case you haven't seen it, one point they make which I found interesting is that he never quite "gets over" the addiction but remains in a constant state of struggle. The way they describe it, his life is a constant battle against relapsing, and I always wondered how accurate their general depiction of the reality of recovering from Heroin addiction is.

(April 10, 2017 at 4:01 pm)Alex K Wrote: Let me state beforehand that I know next to nothing about Heroin addiction apart from the usual stereotypes.

Are you familiar with the (imho mostly excellent) American Sherlock Holmes reinterpretation "Elementary" starring Lucy Liu as a female Dr. Watson? The writers decided to make Holmes a recovering Heroin addict who is constantly fighting his demons parallel to the main story ark, and his struggle with staying sober is addressed regularly. In case you haven't seen it, one point they make which I found interesting is that he never quite "gets over" the addiction but remains in a constant state of struggle. The way they describe it, his life is a constant battle against relapsing, and I always wondered how accurate their general depiction of the reality of recovering from Heroin addiction is.

I don't quite buy into this idea. This certainly isn't my experience with getting sober... though I suppose like with anything else in life, different people experience addiction and recovery from their addiction differently.

I pretty much never think about getting high anymore. I just feel that I've moved on from that part of my life. I do firmly believe, however, that if I started abusing drugs again, there's a chance things would fly off the rails in a short amount of time. Or maybe they wouldn't? I don't really know but I also don't really entertain the thought. I have friends who were also addicted to heroin and now they drink casually and maybe smoke a little pot here and there. I know others who try very hard to stay sober but can't seem to last for more than a few years before relapsing again. These individuals do seem to struggle quite a bit with truly wanting to be sober, which I would imagine is the root of the problem.

But is doing heroin once every three or four years all that bad? I don't know. I mean it certainly isn't good but I suppose it is better than being neck deep in an every day addiction. 

Still, I don't personally feel like sobriety is an every day struggle, but I'm sure some people do feel this way.

That is sort of the problem I have with the 12 step programs... I know people in AA/NA whose lives still basically revolve around drugs. Going to meetings and talking about drugs, hanging out only with other people who used to do drugs, talking about how much they would still love to do drugs but choose not to, going to AA/NA events where almost everyone at the event is a former/current drug addict... I have a family member who is in AA and he can never have a conversation with someone without bringing up how messed up his life used to be or bringing up AA or addiction or drugs in some way shape or form. Sometimes he'll say some seemingly innocent thing like, "That's why, as an addict, I just feel like... blah blah blah blah blah"...always finds a way to bring it up, no matter what. It just seems to me that a lot of these people just can't move past that stage of their life.

I like to think that I have, in fact, moved on from that lifestyle. I've seen what it has to offer and I'm no longer interested. That's not to say I couldn't slip back into addiction if I became careless though. That's why I play it safe and choose to abstain from all mind altering substances, maybe with the exception of caffeine.

Not a question, just a statement.

Kudos to all of you who have the strength not only to give up your addictions, but who also have the strength to talk openly about it.

(April 10, 2017 at 5:37 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Not a question, just a statement.

Kudos to all of you who have the strength not only to give up your addictions, but who also have the strength to talk openly about it.

Mail me a hundred lot of rigs, then I'll talk.

(April 10, 2017 at 5:39 pm)mh.brewer Wrote:

(April 10, 2017 at 5:37 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Not a question, just a statement.

Kudos to all of you who have the strength not only to give up your addictions, but who also have the strength to talk openly about it.

Mail me a hundred lot of rigs, then I'll talk.

Ve haf vays of making you talk!

(April 10, 2017 at 5:37 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Not a question, just a statement.

Kudos to all of you who have the strength not only to give up your addictions, but who also have the strength to talk openly about it.

thanks buddy

It really is important to be open about it. I don't normally bring it up to people but I'm always honest and open if someone asks me.

There's a family around here (they live in the city next to mine) that's pretty involved in the community and their son, who I went to high school with, died unexpectedly at 22. He was a known heroin addict and had no major health issues as far as everyone knows, yet the family claims he died of natural causes. The general consensus is that they're lying about the cause of his death to save face, which is sad if that's really what they're doing.

If that is the case, I find it to be pretty ridiculous, even if it is understandable to an extent. As far as addicts in general... rather than sweeping this problem under the rug and acting like it doesn't exist, it needs to be addressed and talked about publicly without shame or remorse. That's society's only hope in ever truly doing something about the issue. The more we ignore it, the longer it will continue.

edit: I don't really have sympathy for addicts who die of an overdose. You play, you pay. That's just the name of the game. I wouldn't have expected anyone to feel sorry for me if I died in some dope house in the inner city with a needle in my arm. I knew what I was getting myself into by that point.

The reason I bring the family up though is that even if people don't have sympathy for the addicts themselves, it should still be treated as a mental health issue and people should understand that drug use is not always a victimless crime. This family, if their son did die of an overdose, now has to deal with this for the rest of their time on this earth. And if people were more open about the way addiction affects us all, people may learn to have more sympathy for at least the families involved, which in turn would probably prompt more families to be open about this.

Cynical prick that I am, I assume they lied about his death to save face... but their openness about the situation could save lives, potentially, had they chose to be honest about things and start a dialogue with the community that they're so actively involved in.

(April 10, 2017 at 5:22 pm)AceBoogie Wrote:

(April 10, 2017 at 4:01 pm)Alex K Wrote: Let me state beforehand that I know next to nothing about Heroin addiction apart from the usual stereotypes.

Are you familiar with the (imho mostly excellent) American Sherlock Holmes reinterpretation "Elementary" starring Lucy Liu as a female Dr. Watson? The writers decided to make Holmes a recovering Heroin addict who is constantly fighting his demons parallel to the main story ark, and his struggle with staying sober is addressed regularly. In case you haven't seen it, one point they make which I found interesting is that he never quite "gets over" the addiction but remains in a constant state of struggle. The way they describe it, his life is a constant battle against relapsing, and I always wondered how accurate their general depiction of the reality of recovering from Heroin addiction is.

I don't quite buy into this idea. This certainly isn't my experience with getting sober... though I suppose like with anything else in life, different people experience addiction and recovery from their addiction differently.

I pretty much never think about getting high anymore. I just feel that I've moved on from that part of my life. I do firmly believe, however, that if I started abusing drugs again, there's a chance things would fly off the rails in a short amount of time. Or maybe they wouldn't? I don't really know but I also don't really entertain the thought. I have friends who were also addicted to heroin and now they drink casually and maybe smoke a little pot here and there. I know others who try very hard to stay sober but can't seem to last for more than a few years before relapsing again. These individuals do seem to struggle quite a bit with truly wanting to be sober, which I would imagine is the root of the problem.

But is doing heroin once every three or four years all that bad? I don't know. I mean it certainly isn't good but I suppose it is better than being neck deep in an every day addiction. 

Still, I don't personally feel like sobriety is an every day struggle, but I'm sure some people do feel this way.

That is sort of the problem I have with the 12 step programs... I know people in AA/NA whose lives still basically revolve around drugs. Going to meetings and talking about drugs, hanging out only with other people who used to do drugs, talking about how much they would still love to do drugs but choose not to, going to AA/NA events where almost everyone at the event is a former/current drug addict... I have a family member who is in AA and he can never have a conversation with someone without bringing up how messed up his life used to be or bringing up AA or addiction or drugs in some way shape or form. Sometimes he'll say some seemingly innocent thing like, "That's why, as an addict, I just feel like... blah blah blah blah blah"...always finds a way to bring it up, no matter what. It just seems to me that a lot of these people just can't move past that stage of their life.

I like to think that I have, in fact, moved on from that lifestyle. I've seen what it has to offer and I'm no longer interested. That's not to say I couldn't slip back into addiction if I became careless though. That's why I play it safe and choose to abstain from all mind altering substances, maybe with the exception of caffeine.

I agree, to an extent. My vice was amphetamines and methamphetamine, and while I don't feel the craving regularly anymore (almost a year clean next month), there are some "triggers" that make the craving return. Very stressful times in my life when all I want to do is go on a binge because I know it'll help me with all the stuff I need to get done. Looking at the mountain of work that needs to be completed and thinking, "Wow how easy this would be if I were stimmed up." Certain songs actually "trigger" the craving too; for example, when I went on multiple-day binges I would play Chance the Rapper's Acid Rap on loop. Unfortunately I can't listen to it anymore because I get very vivid flashbacks to those binges and it makes me want to get high again. 

But it's nothing compared to the way we used to be, when we felt like we needed it to function. Well, that's how I felt. I won't put words in your mouth. And I agree that constantly being reminded of it, constantly talking about it, is no way to get past it. I never bothered with any of those meetings.

(April 9, 2017 at 7:44 pm)AceBoogie Wrote: Life as an addict is, at the end of the day, miserable and is really not a life worth living.

Amen.

Hey, congrats on getting clean!

---

How did you quit? Was it cold turkey? Did you quit all the drugs you were doing at one time?

Can you explain what withdrawal is like?

(April 10, 2017 at 6:53 pm)Aegon Wrote: I agree, to an extent. My vice was amphetamines and methamphetamine, and while I don't feel the craving regularly anymore (almost a year clean next month), there are some "triggers" that make the craving return. Very stressful times in my life when all I want to do is go on a binge because I know it'll help me with all the stuff I need to get done. Looking at the mountain of work that needs to be completed and thinking, "Wow how easy this would be if I were stimmed up." Certain songs actually "trigger" the craving too; for example, when I went on multiple-day binges I would play Chance the Rapper's Acid Rap on loop. Unfortunately I can't listen to it anymore because I get very vivid flashbacks to those binges and it makes me want to get high again. 

But it's nothing compared to the way we used to be, when we felt like we needed it to function. Well, that's how I felt. I won't put words in your mouth. And I agree that constantly being reminded of it, constantly talking about it, is no way to get past it. I never bothered with any of those meetings.

Congrats on getting clean.

I too experience some urges from time to time, but certainly not in the way some people seem to.