(April 26, 2017 at 5:25 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: How can you possibly  worship a god that would help you get your loans and property, yet let over 9 million children under 5, die every year in pain, hunger and terror? And I am sure many of their parents are are praying just as hard as you ever have.

How can you guys keep asking me the same question yet expect a different answer.

9 million or 9 billion starving babies in Africa is not a God problem it is a man problem especially when this country and others like it in the west are paying it's farmers NOT to plant crops in order to keep corn wheat soy ect prices at a stable profitable rate. God has tasked the wealthy to feed the poor, Now if there is a world wide famine and everyone is starving then it becomes a God problem. As it is He has simply entrusted one group with resources and the infrastructure to distribute the wealth. and granted even you 'good people' have taken up that mandate to a degree. If people starve in this time of plenty it is not God who starves them sport. it's people like you who bitches about starving babies and but otherwise does nothing to alleviate the suffering. Cause if they did they'd know what makes this current group of people 'difficult' to help. Which even a maligned self righteous prick could see this again would not be a God thing but a man made barrier.

Quote:The Indonesian tsunami of 2004 took 250,000 people of all ages, and your god sits back and lets that many children under 5 die every 1.5 weeks.

Are you stupid or sumthin?
Death is not our end, but our birth into eternity. Only those who have no eternal future see death as an evil or bad thing. So why would I could it against God that one or Everyone dies in this life? Death is your scarry evil measure not mine.

Quote:That you believe that your your god is good by making sure your loan went through and you got your property, yet sits back and lets children die in vast numbers without doing a thing, just shows how your religion has caused you to lose your moral compass.

I would rather see those children die than live and suffer and then (Because they are indeed muslim) be taught that lazy people like you sat on mountains of food, and the farmers were even PAID NOT grow crops so as to keep the price high, then turn and fight us as ISIS or something worse.

That's the thing between us sport I don't see us all as basically 'good' and even though children are innocent by any measure they do not remain children. they quickly (10 to 13) in those areas are use to fight very real and adult conflicts.

So if an all loving God (To Children as they know no sin) can scoop them up and take them home or plug them into families that can better take care of them... then yes I'm for death over life of starvation and then indoctrination... It's almost like you guys aren't programmed to think past the word children or childhood, let alone have any common sense programmed for what the over all Good of a given bad situation wold be.

Quote:A god that would act like this, deserves to be fought against by every moral man and woman on the planet.

Your right. If 'morality' makes you greater than God I think God/God's people should fight against the sinful stain of 'morality.'

Quote:The worst possible universe I can imagine, is one where your god actually exists.

It's like you guys have an atheist mad lips roped off by subject matter. same formula different words.

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(April 27, 2017 at 6:39 am)chimp3 Wrote: Somebody must like you drich. You should probably find out who gave you that money and send them a thank you card. Drooling over your miracle working sky fairy is just wasting time.

Found out for sure no one gave us money.

we were internally credited for some reason.

What about the business pick up/cash flow? once we were done a series of cash flow issues were also resolved. Quite a feat for one person to undertake don't you think?

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I honestly had no idea how any of this would work out, but I've been around the block with God long enough to see the signs of something big (this could have as easily been a big Fail for me as well) but I knew it would be a big deal no matter what. So i shared this whole experience with you all so as to see not what happens everyday but on a frequent enough basis to know it is not me but God... When these things happen to you and you know you are well beyond any help. but then find what can't be found. Over and over and over again.

This is the second time Money has come from Heaven for us. Just out of the blue a stranger gave me 25K to start my business, and again here about 16K as not only the down payment been made, but we no also have an 8K credit to add a porch or fence or even work shop/shed.

(April 26, 2017 at 4:42 pm)Drich Wrote: [edit]

Then the dreaded finance part. first thing she asked for checks (before me wife had even come back. it was obvious we had an envelope on the table and it had checks in it and one was a cashiers check) So I played dumb as I was trying to motion my wife back into the room. the loan lady reaches for the check and pushes them towards me telling me to check in here I do. I said two checks she asked for the amounts, I gave them to her and she said that's what I'm looking for... I'm like wuuuut??? But I did not say anything and just waited for Trich.

She comes through the door looking at me and shakes her head, then sees the loan lady with the two checks and start to go into a song and dance we had practice, and I was like hold on Trich. mrs. so an so, was going to tell us how we are paid up on EVERYTHING.. Then she goes though the hold contract/costs, and it comes back with a +balance of 8,000.00 Meaning.... Someone? Paid. the down payment. on our home. match what we put in and filled in the rest!!!!

They have no idea who just that it's paid. My mom dad and her mom (plus our guys/employees and you 'good people') are the only ones who know we were closing on our house today and knew we did not have the money.

Idk what to say. I knew God would come through... but not like this I guess there is still tons I don't know. Or maybe one of you came through I truly dn't know. I do have paper work that shows me owning the money in the builder's contract and I show a positive balance in the closing construction contract. This is such a big deal for us. it takes off so much weight of gearing up for the summer and in the way of getting the house and fence we wanted.

If any of you ever want to see the paper work I'll show you...

The salesman said he got the paper work a few days ahead of us and saw what he thought was an error, but did not want to get our hopes up. he said he has no idea how what or why this happened. nothing like it has ever happened in the 20+ years he had been there. but it's all legit.

[edit]

bold mine

First two: Is this what I think it is, intentional deception? Apparently you believe your god is OK with this. Or OK as long as it's applied to people of lesser faith. 

Third and fourth: Someone paid is correct, not god.

Fifth: How do you know it's not an error and now you are stealing from someone. Why did you not ask who paid the money? I'm sure that they can tell you. Or is it OK as long as you believe the blissful ignorance of god did it?

You come across as just another miracle testifier where no miracle actually exists. If anything, it's another humans compassion which is not miraculous. 

Now backing up to a previous post you, mentioned a "fully lived life". Would you tell me exactly what this is. Or is this just another christian judgement that non believers are always unfulfilled.

(April 27, 2017 at 10:29 am)mh.brewer Wrote: [quote='Drich' pid='1545700' dateline='1493239370']
[edit]

Then the dreaded finance part. first thing she asked for checks (before me wife had even come back. it was obvious we had an envelope on the table and it had checks in it and one was a cashiers check) So I played dumb as I was trying to motion my wife back into the room. the loan lady reaches for the check and pushes them towards me telling me to check in here I do. I said two checks she asked for the amounts, I gave them to her and she said that's what I'm looking for... I'm like wuuuut??? But I did not say anything and just waited for Trich.

She comes through the door looking at me and shakes her head, then sees the loan lady with the two checks and start to go into a song and dance we had practice, and I was like hold on Trich. mrs. so an so, was going to tell us how we are paid up on EVERYTHING.. Then she goes though the hold contract/costs, and it comes back with a +balance of 8,000.00 Meaning.... Someone? Paid. the down payment. on our home. match what we put in and filled in the rest!!!!

They have no idea who just that it's paid. My mom dad and her mom (plus our guys/employees and you 'good people') are the only ones who know we were closing on our house today and knew we did not have the money.

Idk what to say. I knew God would come through... but not like this I guess there is still tons I don't know. Or maybe one of you came through I truly dn't know. I do have paper work that shows me owning the money in the builder's contract and I show a positive balance in the closing construction contract. This is such a big deal for us. it takes off so much weight of gearing up for the summer and in the way of getting the house and fence we wanted.

If any of you ever want to see the paper work I'll show you...

The salesman said he got the paper work a few days ahead of us and saw what he thought was an error, but did not want to get our hopes up. he said he has no idea how what or why this happened. nothing like it has ever happened in the 20+ years he had been there. but it's all legit.

[edit]

bold mine

Quote:First two: Is this what I think it is, intentional deception?

yup.

Quote:Apparently you believe your god is OK with this.

Yup

Quote:Or OK as long as it's applied to people of lesser faith. 

Yuuup

Did Jesus ever ask a question he did not already know the answer to? Good example is the last supper. Jesus did all of the things I did here in this example. He played dumb as to who would eventually betray him. He even put people off as when directly asked.

It wasn't because they were nessarily of lessor faith. (even though they all would proove to be (except John) it simply wasn't their time to know. Much like the woman I was dealing with, It wasn't her time to know till my wife got back so we could go through the experience together.

That said a song and dance simply refers to a rehearsed narrative. although rehearsed narratives do not have to be honest ours was. (It was basically everything I told you here.) But, if you want to call that a deception I'll gladly be your deceiver, and also point to Christ redirection into the Lord's supper as being a prepared speech rather than directly answer the questions being asked.

Quote:Third and fourth: Someone paid is correct, not god.

Actually no one paid as the balance due has not changed. We went back to try and discover what happened last night. We have contract (preclosing with all the bells and whistles we wanted designed into our house and we owed 275,xxx (whatever the FDA loan max amount was for that county) and we had to pay the balance. The balance which did include the well, septic 14K in impact fees, 2800' linear a fence, two gates, 2 acre land clearing, electric hook up, 1500ft of drive way and 5 dump truck loads of dirt grading and landscaping. All of that was extra. That plus the land was our down payment. We were asked to pay 1/2 p front. and the other 1/2 at closing. (about 8000) We took the money and invested it into vans to sell. Rather than miss the beginning of the busy season. We went to closing without the 8K (after being told last Saturday to make sure we put the 8K in a cashiers check) Then when discussing what was owed with the lender to close, we now owe nothing. Matter of fact we have a 8K credit. I asked how did it go from an 8K bill to an 8K credit, the lady we spoke with did not know. We spoke to the sales man, he double check. It's all legit and He did not know. He said I've been doing this for 20+ years and this is the first time this has ever happened!

Our loan amount did not change.
It is still the max 275,xxx
Our incidententals (the list of crap not in the home morgage) did not change, we are getting everything we wanted (plus 8k more) Actually this is after I up graded to a 2hp well pump and red wire top galvanized steel fencing, and added an inch to the drive way.

Quote:Fifth: How do you know it's not an error and now you are stealing from someone.

We asked. it's been double checked for 3 days. We were supposed to be there first saturday, then tuesday and then finally again wed @10. They reschedualed not us.

Quote: Why did you not ask who paid the money?

because I like you knew where it came from. I just do not have a problem admitting it.

Quote:I'm sure that they can tell you. Or is it OK as long as you believe the blissful ignorance of god did it?

I asked what is this credit and what happens to the money if we do not spend it on construction. One they do not know as nothing has changed, and two it gets applied into the actual loan amount the FDA's 275K

Quote:You come across as just another miracle testifier where no miracle actually exists.

Again sport miracles are not for others. they are for the one who the miracle was done for. they are the result often time of weathering the wind and rain I spoke about in the OP, and as a reward get rewarded. I am simply sharing whatever happened with in a day or so of things happening. I knew something 'good' would happen, but did not know what. I was hoping just for the obvious, and was blown out of the water with this! Again I say I am nothing special as God has promised this type of life for each one of us!

Imagine how much different your life would be if things like this happened on a fairly regular basis.

Quote:If anything, it's another humans compassion which is not miraculous. 

Then it was one of you. My dad is retired and on a very fixed income, which is being consumed by his medical. Her mom is in the same boat (will have to move in with us eventually) She is to shamed to ask her dad for anything.. couldn't have been the salesman, that leaves the builder or one of you.

Stimbo? faith no more??? did you Go off and find you some Jesus while I wasn't looking??? Holy Crap I figured it out! it was Minnie! he just spend 16K to make me go on and on about God and now he will jack in the box out of left field and claim to have paid this money!!! Oh the shame!!!

If someone paid it was ne of you! Because no one else knew. The shame factor and probability of failure was so high we knew we had lost everything going into this one! So we didn't tell anyone outside of who we though could help, or with you who we could help.

Quote:Now backing up to a previous post you, mentioned a "fully lived life". Would you tell me exactly what this is. Or is this just another christian judgement that non believers are always unfulfilled.

That's what you non-desit a-holes are longing for right? a life so long and morally lived it gives you an enlightenment/ deistic preview over everything in this realm. Like a renaissance man who's life is so well live he ends at the door step of omniscience.

I was asking can you live a life so completely, that if in your travels you do not discover God, God can not exist? Does a full life = any degree of omniscience?

Then the obvious question... Who are you to judge what you know nothing about?

You spend a life refusing to look where God tell you to find Him, and because God on His own authority will not otherwise seek you out or have anything to do with someone who will not look where commanded. Pretend that God can not exist because he is not where you are...

I doubt a financial institution or business would accept that kind of deposit without knowing the source. It's kind of an anti money laundering thing now, not that you would understand. And you now rationalize a conspiracy payment. Your world is certainly twisted.  

If your god condones intentional deception that's just another reason for a big, no thanks. But nice rationalization. 

I settle for "life" and make it what I need to. No need to fantasize, deceive, step and fetch, or believe that any human at any time approaches omniscience.

(April 18, 2017 at 1:41 pm)Drich Wrote: I truly believe the rest will fall like dominoes, as we have need we will be given the funds. but we will see. I promise to post what happens this week good or bad as it happens.

Are you suggesting the fix is in, that the big cheese of this and every other galaxy is making sure your ride isn't too bumpy on account of how damned grateful you are to Him for killing Himself to appease Himself and all that?  Seems kinda far fetched from where I sit .

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(April 18, 2017 at 2:24 pm)dyresand Wrote: if anything i don't think god(s)  care about humans petty issues if anything. Honestly if it were that simple to where god would have helped anyone
most natural disasters would have a brighter  outcome.. but the sad truth there is non only for the survivors and not for the unfortunate who have died.
but yeah as a human speaking to another i hope everything turns out good for you Dirch i honestly do.

I may not be a man of god i don't like seeing my fellow human beings or anyone suffer or go through anything bad.

Especially not the petty issues of petty people.  

(April 27, 2017 at 5:00 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: I doubt a financial institution or business would accept that kind of deposit without knowing the source. It's kind of an anti money laundering thing now, not that you would understand. And you now rationalize a conspiracy payment. Your world is certainly twisted.  

I agree, I remember now that they were looking at bank statements to see where all of our money was coming from. "No gifts."

Quote:If your god condones intentional deception that's just another reason for a big, no thanks. But nice rationalization. 

God condones intentional deception just like He condoned Jesus' work on the sabbath, that the pharisees identified. Meaning, You can call like you see it doesn't mean God sees it that way. In the case of the pharisees Jesus clearly broke the law when he heal a crippled man infront of the pharrisees. They even called Him out on it to his face. Jesus explain that just because 'man' can warp a law to fit his evil heart does not change the intent of God's law. It is the intent of Christ's actions that determines what was or was not breaking the law. NOT a simple accusation.

There is no difference here. You merely accuse me of sin. You yet to show sin. This wicked generation's M.O. is just to make a claim of impropriety, no one cares if it is true or not.

Quote:I settle for "life" and make it what I need to.

why settle for anything? If you mean you found contentment in your station of life that is one thing, but if you mean you've given p because your efforts/education can take you no further, that is your own foolish mistake. I should be living the life of a ditch digger if my efforts and education where my measure of success. Rather I live.. way way better than I thought I ever could.

Quote: No need to fantasize, deceive,

agreed. after week 2 of August I invite anyone of you to look and see for yourself what God has done.

Quote:step and fetch,

I simply try and use everything God gives me. If it is a skill I try and use it if it is a story I try and share it. That is all that is asked and I have been given 10x's my original measure for being faithful to this formula.

Quote:or believe that any human at any time approaches omniscience.

Some of you obviously do. If you can make the claim there is no God, and hold that it is true, then that claim has to be based on omniscience or some level of it as nothing else would support such a claim.

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(April 27, 2017 at 5:05 pm)Whateverist Wrote:

(April 18, 2017 at 1:41 pm)Drich Wrote: I truly believe the rest will fall like dominoes, as we have need we will be given the funds. but we will see. I promise to post what happens this week good or bad as it happens.

Are you suggesting the fix is in, that the big cheese of this and every other galaxy is making sure your ride isn't too bumpy on account of how damned grateful you are to Him for killing Himself to appease Himself and all that?  Seems kinda far fetched from where I sit

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in reality

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.

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(April 18, 2017 at 2:24 pm)dyresand Wrote: if anything i don't think god(s)  care about humans petty issues if anything. Honestly if it were that simple to where god would have helped anyone
most natural disasters would have a brighter  outcome.. but the sad truth there is non only for the survivors and not for the unfortunate who have died.
but yeah as a human speaking to another i hope everything turns out good for you Dirch i honestly do.

I may not be a man of god i don't like seeing my fellow human beings or anyone suffer or go through anything bad.

Especially not the petty issues of petty people.  

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I know, I feel horrible for saying it but it needed saying.  You're welcome.

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Where did I say any of that?

I clearly stated that God sometimes takes us out well beyond the hope and scope of help from anyone else, to a place of hoplessness and despare. a place there is no way back from unless He were to save us.

That is what I described here. He takes us to this place because we ask for proof, and assureance of God. what better proof when arrives to save us?

(April 24, 2017 at 9:03 am)Drich Wrote: ...And what if it is not me being crazy??? What If I do not live the deafened muted life you are forced to live? What if I found something you did not? What if this rabbit hole of life goes a whole lot deeper than what you've been able to explore in your time here?

Do you really consider yourself to be the gold standard in a fully lived life? (there can be nothing more than what you know?)

And what if we're all just brains in vats experiencing this reality? Or, like, what if our universe is one cell of some giant being in another massive universe? Whoa, man...

No, it's just you being crazy.

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(April 27, 2017 at 9:09 am)Drich Wrote: 9 million or 9 billion starving babies in Africa is not a God problem it is a man problem...<snip>

So...

Millions of starving babies - not a god problem.

Drich's loan - god problem.

Hallelujah!

Quote:Millions of starving babies - not a god problem.

A god who says it's not my problem is no god  he's a demon

And what if the guy who thinks that he's a muffin learned something we have not or he could be just crazy

(April 27, 2017 at 9:09 am)Drich Wrote:

(April 26, 2017 at 5:25 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: How can you possibly  worship a god that would help you get your loans and property, yet let over 9 million children under 5, die every year in pain, hunger and terror? And I am sure many of their parents are are praying just as hard as you ever have.

How can you guys keep asking me the same question yet expect a different answer.

Because we are constantly hoping that you are able to reclaim your moral compass, and give up your immoral religion.

Quote:9 million or 9 billion starving babies in Africa is not a God problem it is a man problem especially when this country and others like it in the west are paying it's farmers NOT to plant crops in order to keep corn wheat soy ect prices at a stable profitable rate. God has tasked the wealthy to feed the poor, Now if there is a world wide famine and everyone is starving then it becomes a God problem. As it is He has simply entrusted one group with resources and the infrastructure to distribute the wealth. and granted even you 'good people' have taken up that mandate to a degree. If people starve in this time of plenty it is not God who starves them sport. it's people like you who bitches about starving babies and  but otherwise does nothing to alleviate the suffering. Cause if they did they'd know what makes this current group of people 'difficult' to help. Which even a maligned self righteous prick could see this again would not be a God thing but a man made barrier.

Okay, for arguments sake, I'll temporarily concede that the mass starvations are a man made problem. That still would not let your god off the hook for non man made problems that are out of our control. Like the Indonesian tsunami or the Japanese tsunami.

Quote:The Indonesian tsunami of 2004 took 250,000 people of all ages, and your god sits back and lets that many children under 5 die every 1.5 weeks.

Quote:Are you stupid or sumthin?
Death is not our end, but our birth into eternity. Only those who have no eternal future see death as an evil or bad thing. So why would I could it against God that one or Everyone dies in this life? Death is your scarry evil measure not mine.

Ah, so this life is just a place where we wipe our feet for 7 or 8 decades while waiting for the real thing to begin. Makes one wonder why we have this life at all? Doesn't make you wonder, of course, I mean it makes someone with a bit if critical thinking skills and rationality wonder.

Yes, when people die before they would need to, it is immoral for humans to let it happen. If their life is shortened by a tsunami, when a god could have prevented it, then that god is immoral.

Quote:That you believe that your your god is good by making sure your loan went through and you got your property, yet sits back and lets children die in vast numbers without doing a thing, just shows how your religion has caused you to lose your moral compass.

Quote:I would rather see those children die than live and suffer and then (Because they are indeed muslim) be taught that lazy people like you sat on mountains of food, and the farmers were even PAID NOT grow crops so as to keep the price high, then turn and fight us as ISIS or something worse.

You have no idea how much money and time I donate.

I have never claimed that human behavior hasn't made the situation worse.

Quote:That's the thing between us sport I don't see us all as basically 'good' and even though children are innocent by any measure they do not remain children. they quickly (10 to 13) in those areas are use to fight very real and adult conflicts.

So, it is okay for all of the innocent children to die of starvation, because some of them may end up to be soldiers?

Quote:So if an all loving God (To Children as they know no sin) can scoop them up and take them home or plug them into families that can better take care of them... then yes I'm for death over life of starvation and then indoctrination... It's almost like you guys aren't programmed to think past the word children or childhood, let alone have any common sense programmed for what the over all Good of a given bad situation wold be.

Too bad a god with the attributes that you believe yours has, would be able, if he was moral, to mitigate the bad situation. Not sure how you think this helps defending your immoral god.  

Quote:A god that would act like this, deserves to be fought against by every moral man and woman on the planet.

[/quote]Your right. If 'morality' makes you greater than God I think God/God's people should fight against the sinful stain of 'morality.'/quote]

I can tell you, I am more moral than the god that is depicted in the Bible.

(April 29, 2017 at 2:22 pm)Simon Moon Wrote:

(April 27, 2017 at 9:09 am)Drich Wrote: How can you guys keep asking me the same question yet expect a different answer.

[edit]

Okay, for arguments sake, I'll temporarily concede that the mass starvations are a man made problem. That still would not let your god off the hook for non man made problems that are out of our control. Like the Indonesian tsunami or the Japanese tsunami.

[edit]

Hold the phone. Isn't drich's problem also man made? 

Wait, those killed by starvation and natural disasters didn't believe enough, at least not as much a drich, problem solved. Great job god!