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RE: I don't understand; why do people defend things such as the confederate flag
May 16, 2017 at 8:19 pm
(May 16, 2017 at 6:01 pm)Crunchy Wrote: Quote:Minimalist Wrote:
Now, name me one government which simply rolled over and allowed itself to be replaced by rebels.
Canada.
We rebels repatriated our constitution from the UK through an agreement, not through war.
Quote:Actually, it isn't different at all. In both cases a specific socio-economic class wanted to replace the existing ruling class.
Now C'mon. The differences for wanting independence can't just be swept under the rug as though all reasons are meaningless. There was a worldwide movement against slavery that had been going on and most countries abolished slavery without having a civil war over it.
Really?
![[Image: 20_front.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.bankofcanada.ca%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F09%2F20_front.jpg)
Who is the old bag on your $20 bill again?
I don't share your altruistic view of rebels. From time to time one has to shake up the status quo but few rebellions result in improved living conditions for the masses that do the fighting.
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RE: I don't understand; why do people defend things such as the confederate flag
May 16, 2017 at 8:48 pm
(May 16, 2017 at 8:19 pm)Minimalist Wrote: (May 16, 2017 at 6:01 pm)Crunchy Wrote: Canada.
We rebels repatriated our constitution from the UK through an agreement, not through war.
Now C'mon. The differences for wanting independence can't just be swept under the rug as though all reasons are meaningless. There was a worldwide movement against slavery that had been going on and most countries abolished slavery without having a civil war over it.
Really?
Who is the old bag on your $20 bill again?
I don't share your altruistic view of rebels. From time to time one has to shake up the status quo but few rebellions result in improved living conditions for the masses that do the fighting.
You have confused our maintaince of our colonial heritage. To our efforts to all but depower the monarchy from our domestic and international affairs. Starting with the ousting the family compact etc ..
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RE: I don't understand; why do people defend things such as the confederate flag
May 16, 2017 at 9:03 pm
Btw, saying, 'oh the problem of symbols with horrible historical meanings exists in other places' is not an excuse to let the one we are discssing to continue outside of museums and history books.
Come on people, you should know better than that basic fallacy.
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RE: I don't understand; why do people defend things such as the confederate flag
May 16, 2017 at 10:44 pm
(This post was last modified: May 16, 2017 at 10:44 pm by Rev. Rye.)
(May 16, 2017 at 4:04 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Instead of calling it 'the Confederate Battle Flag', perhaps a campaign should be started to refer to it as 'the Battle Flag Of The Slaveholders' Rebellion'. Calling it anything else is just putting lipstick on a pig.
Boru
Technically, it was the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. The closest thing the CSA used to the design we know and hate today was the Second Confederate Navy Jack; ironically, by the time the CSA adopted that navy jack, they stayed largely irrelevant except for their brief forays into submarine warfare (which you don't really use flags for).
The real Confederate Flag:
![[Image: 810px-Flag_of_the_Confederate_States_of_...29.svg.png]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/da/Flag_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America_%281861-1863%29.svg/810px-Flag_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America_%281861-1863%29.svg.png)
Granted, they did put the classic design on later flags, but they were just part of the canton in the corner of a flag that was otherwise all white except for a red stripe added for about a month near the end.
![[Image: 800px-Flag_of_the_Confederate_States_of_...29.svg.png]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4e/Flag_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America_%281865%29.svg/800px-Flag_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America_%281865%29.svg.png)
Doesn't look that inspiring, does it?
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RE: I don't understand; why do people defend things such as the confederate flag
May 17, 2017 at 12:36 am
The only thing I relate the confederate flag with is dime bag Darrell's signature guitar and pantera.
Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.
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RE: I don't understand; why do people defend things such as the confederate flag
May 17, 2017 at 8:31 am
(This post was last modified: May 17, 2017 at 8:32 am by Rev. Rye.)
(May 17, 2017 at 12:36 am)paulpablo Wrote: The only thing I relate the confederate flag with is dime bag Darrell's signature guitar and pantera. And not even Skynyrd? Someone's missing out.
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RE: I don't understand; why do people defend things such as the confederate flag
May 17, 2017 at 9:06 am
Woah woah woah
Texas has her faults but she is a good place to live!
My racist family is from Georgia and my best friends family is from Germany (her family is just as racist as mine) and Ohio. The military town I grew up in wasn't racist, we were.
Texas is beautiful & rich in multiple heritages (central Texas was settled by Germans and the Polish, south Texas by Mexicans and Spaniards, plus we have French and a shit ton of native American)
Despite how I grew up I will never move away from Texas. Our history and attitude stems from further back than the civil war. We gained our country status before ever joining the Americans.
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RE: I don't understand; why do people defend things such as the confederate flag
May 17, 2017 at 9:45 am
(May 16, 2017 at 8:16 pm)Orochi Wrote: I never implied everyone in the south is bad merely that this specific period of history while should be studied and acknowledge just is not something that should be honored as a glowing notion of heroism
I'm guessing there weren't a lot of slave owners in the ranks of the confederate army. For the rank and file in most military throughout history, they're all in the same boat.
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RE: I don't understand; why do people defend things such as the confederate flag
May 17, 2017 at 10:01 am
(May 17, 2017 at 9:45 am)wallym Wrote: (May 16, 2017 at 8:16 pm)Orochi Wrote: I never implied everyone in the south is bad merely that this specific period of history while should be studied and acknowledge just is not something that should be honored as a glowing notion of heroism
I'm guessing there weren't a lot of slave owners in the ranks of the confederate army. For the rank and file in most military throughout history, they're all in the same boat.
Only one in 10 Southerners owned more than 10 slaves. Most of the remaining 90% didn't own any.
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RE: I don't understand; why do people defend things such as the confederate flag
May 17, 2017 at 11:13 am
(This post was last modified: May 17, 2017 at 11:15 am by The Grand Nudger.)
It's fair to say that the motivations of the institutions of state in the south in the civil war were decidedly centered around the preservation of slavery, and ultimately this institution was the one which incited the war....but the motivations of individual confederates (and yankees) who fought (and died) under or before any confederate banner were far less monolithic....and often enough, nothing whatsoever to do with any disparity of opinion on "the negro", white supremacy, or the institution of slavery itself.
If you couldn't find -any- other thing that a confederate soldier and a union soldier agree on I bet you could find that one™.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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