(June 14, 2017 at 8:02 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: All religions get political. Islam is no different. It is a religion which has political implications and makes political recommendations.

But it is a religion, not a political doctrine.

Errrrrrrrr wrong. Islam is both a religion and political doctrine. The hadiths are very clear about how to run a government. There is no separation of church and state in Islam.

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(June 14, 2017 at 7:38 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(June 14, 2017 at 6:51 am)Omnisofos Wrote: Impossible. It goes against US constitution.

Yes, but to them their little book of fables is far more important than the Constitution and the rights of everyone else.

The American Taliban is out there.

Aren't you from Australia?

A secular guvmint would be apostasy in regards to most any religion.

You realize that the hadiths are commentary, right? The only difference is that they've been collected. (cf. the "City on a Hill" sermon).

(June 16, 2017 at 12:54 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: You realize that the hadiths are commentary, right? The only difference is that they've been collected. (cf. the "City on a Hill" sermon).

I don't know whether or not captain is right about what the hadiths contain but whatever the hadiths are I know that many Muslims follow the hadiths as closely as they follow the quran.

The Muslims that follow only the quran verses, no hadiths, are quite rare if I remember correctly.  

And like the quran there are laws based upon the hadith.  Again, if I remember correctly.

(June 16, 2017 at 4:19 am)ignoramus Wrote: What country do you reside in, if you don't mind me asking?

Proud to say my little country founded New York in 1602 as 'Nieuw Amsterdam'.....I'm from The Netherlands (Holland), living in (old) Amsterdam.

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(June 16, 2017 at 5:28 am)Succubus Wrote:

(June 16, 2017 at 4:08 am)Omnisofos Wrote: <Drivel snip>I also believe US Atheists are probably more focused on Christianity because there are indeed a lot of extreme-Christian-communities in the US with terrible (facist) ideas and lifestyle.

Are you sure you have a handle on what fascism is? And why can't you spell 'Fascist'?

You don't really want me to define 'fascism' in this thread, right? I do apologize for using the wrong grammar. English not my prime language.

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(June 16, 2017 at 11:15 am)CapnAwesome Wrote:

(June 14, 2017 at 8:02 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: All religions get political. Islam is no different. It is a religion which has political implications and makes political recommendations.

But it is a religion, not a political doctrine.

Errrrrrrrr wrong. Islam is both a religion and political doctrine. The hadiths are very clear about how to run a government. There is no separation of church and state in Islam.

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(June 14, 2017 at 7:38 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Yes, but to them their little book of fables is far more important than the Constitution and the rights of everyone else.

The American Taliban is out there.

Aren't you from Australia?

I still can't quote here properly, sorry, but Captain Awesome, I salute you. Thank you for defending my POV.

(June 16, 2017 at 1:10 pm)paulpablo Wrote:

(June 16, 2017 at 12:54 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: You realize that the hadiths are commentary, right? The only difference is that they've been collected. (cf. the "City on a Hill" sermon).

I don't know whether or not captain is right about what the hadiths contain but whatever the hadiths are I know that many Muslims follow the hadiths as closely as they follow the quran.

The Muslims that follow only the quran verses, no hadiths, are quite rare if I remember correctly.  

And like the quran there are laws based upon the hadith.  Again, if I remember correctly.

I've known many, many Muslims who could not care less about this or that hadith, or all of them.

Just like any other religion, Islam has its cherry-pickers. This idea that they are all extremists who wish to impose every jot and tittle of the hadiths as well as the Qur'an is not borne out by the facts.

(June 16, 2017 at 6:46 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(June 16, 2017 at 1:10 pm)paulpablo Wrote: I don't know whether or not captain is right about what the hadiths contain but whatever the hadiths are I know that many Muslims follow the hadiths as closely as they follow the quran.

The Muslims that follow only the quran verses, no hadiths, are quite rare if I remember correctly.  

And like the quran there are laws based upon the hadith.  Again, if I remember correctly.

I've known many, many Muslims who could not care less about this or that hadith, or all of them.

Just like any other religion, Islam has its cherry-pickers. This idea that they are all extremists who wish to impose every jot and tittle of the hadiths as well as the Qur'an is not borne out by the facts.

At least in my statement there's been no mention that they are all extremists who want to impose every jot and tittle of the hadiths aswell as the quran.

You may have known many Muslims who purely base their belief on the quran.

There are 1.8 billion muslims.  This would mean anecdotal evidence based on some Muslims you or I know would be useless in considering what the demographics are in relation to Muslims who consider the hadiths to be of importance vs no importance.  I'm taking a guess they are in the minority.  I've always thought the majority of Muslims are sunni.  To a less extent shia, and quranist Muslims are in a minority.  

A brief look at wikipedia states that quranist Muslims are considered unorthodox and finding out the number of Muslims who aren't orthodox Sunni or Shia Muslims might be difficult to discover due to them being afraid of being considered apostates and killed.

Atlass is a Muslim who purely believes in the quran and not the hadith if I remember correctly and he lives in a Muslim country, maybe he has a better idea of the number of Muslims who consider the hadith to be important.  

The Muslims I spoke to in person about the hadith looked at me like I'd gone insane when I asked why do they follow the hadith.  They considered it obvious that they have to follow the traditions of the prophet.

(June 14, 2017 at 6:51 am)Omnisofos Wrote: Impossible. It goes against US constitution.

Like any of our politicians give a shit about the constitution. Many don't even understand it or what it's for.

Your experiences differ from my five years living in Tehran and Saudi Arabia, Paul. I stand by what I wrote.

I am curious as to how Islamic indroctronation is different from Christian indoctrination in the US.

I was raised catholic, was sent to catholic schools, attended mass religiously (ha) but quit drinking the cool aid, and so did many others.

Is it because the west is more tolerant than the Muslim world?

There are extreamist Christian's in the US and other places, but they are not creating near the havoc s thier Muslim counterparts.

Islam is a great example of what can happen when religion is allowed to grow unchecked.