Exactly. I look at a family like the Phelps and say, "yep, that's abuse." But I also know that my family all accept me, our differing beliefs (or lack thereof) notwithstanding.
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Current time: June 16, 2024, 6:24 pm
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This Has to Stop
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RE: This Has to Stop
September 16, 2017 at 5:18 pm
(This post was last modified: September 16, 2017 at 5:21 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(September 16, 2017 at 4:26 pm)Losty Wrote: I don't necessarily think raising a child into religion is abuse. There are a lot of factors going into it, are you teaching your child to believe uncritally that this is fact without allowing them to learn to question everything? Are you telling your child that if they grow up to disagree with you that you'll disown them or that they'll be tortured for all eternity? Those things seem abusive to me. So long as you say "disagree with god" or "god will disown you" or that "god will torture you" it's kay. Just don't say the Great Pumpkin disagrees, or will disown you, or torture you for all eternity - because that makes you a deviant and CPS needs to get in there right now before you grow up to make meat sculptures out of people. Truth is, religion get a pass(even among the non-religious) because of it's familiarity, but only the familiar religions. Christians don't even give other -christians- a pass, nevermind muslims or other assorted devil worshippers. This is the product of our traditional deference to traditional religious norms.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
 (September 16, 2017 at 4:26 pm)Losty Wrote: I don't necessarily think raising a child into religion is abuse. There are a lot of factors going into it, are you teaching your child to believe uncritally that this is fact without allowing them to learn to question everything? Are you telling your child that if they grow up to disagree with you that you'll disown them or that they'll be tortured for all eternity? Those things seem abusive to me. I would agree with this. Not allowing your child to think critically and telling your child that you will disown them for any reason (religious or otherwise) is emotionally abusive. Conveying your faith to your child doesn't have to entail these things, and usually doesn't.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh RE: This Has to Stop
September 16, 2017 at 5:22 pm
(This post was last modified: September 16, 2017 at 5:26 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
It;s impoosible to convey the message of christianity without entailing horrid things. Christians don;t think they're horrid things, but that;s because christians fail the outsider test - even though theyre more than capable of applying it to any other christian cult...or any other religion.
A person cannot so much as tell a child (or anyone else) the christian message without suggesting that the solution to their inherited degeneracy...as defined by a magic book, is to kill the better man. Hallelujah!
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
 (September 16, 2017 at 5:18 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:(September 16, 2017 at 4:26 pm)Losty Wrote: I don't necessarily think raising a child into religion is abuse. There are a lot of factors going into it, are you teaching your child to believe uncritally that this is fact without allowing them to learn to question everything? Are you telling your child that if they grow up to disagree with you that you'll disown them or that they'll be tortured for all eternity? Those things seem abusive to me. I don't know if I would agree with "usually doesn't" but maybe "usually doesn't, in America" 
Tell that to Leo Behe
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
Inuit Proverb  RE: This Has to Stop
September 16, 2017 at 6:21 pm
(This post was last modified: September 16, 2017 at 6:41 pm by Astonished.)
(September 16, 2017 at 4:26 pm)Losty Wrote: I don't necessarily think raising a child into religion is abuse. There are a lot of factors going into it, are you teaching your child to believe uncritally that this is fact without allowing them to learn to question everything? Are you telling your child that if they grow up to disagree with you that you'll disown them or that they'll be tortured for all eternity? Those things seem abusive to me. This is in a nutshell, the distinction I was making between merely introducing the idea (not to the exclusion of any or all others) and outright indoctrination. There are huge problems and other flaws in bringing up religion in child-rearing in and of themselves, but I wouldn't call that abuse in the same way as intentional indoctrination. (September 16, 2017 at 5:22 pm)Khemikal Wrote: It;s impoosible to convey the message of christianity without entailing horrid things. Christians don;t think they're horrid things, but that;s because christians fail the outsider test - even though theyre more than capable of applying it to any other christian cult...or any other religion. Yep, there's them other probs I was alluding to about simple religious instruction. So while I'm still going to shake my head and roll my eyes when I hear a parent say they're going to raise a child and give them those lessons along with everything else, I'm not going to condemn them as abusers. In other news, the same youtube channel I got the original inspiration for this thread from had another video that sicks me the fuck out... Watching that little girl, all I could hear was, "Gooble-gobble, gooble-gobble, one of us, one of us!"
Religions were invented to impress and dupe illiterate, superstitious stone-age peasants. So in this modern, enlightened age of information, what's your excuse? Or are you saying with all your advantages, you were still tricked as easily as those early humans?
--- There is no better way to convey the least amount of information in the greatest amount of words than to try explaining your religious views.  (September 16, 2017 at 5:18 pm)Khemikal Wrote:(September 16, 2017 at 4:26 pm)Losty Wrote: I don't necessarily think raising a child into religion is abuse. There are a lot of factors going into it, are you teaching your child to believe uncritally that this is fact without allowing them to learn to question everything? Are you telling your child that if they grow up to disagree with you that you'll disown them or that they'll be tortured for all eternity? Those things seem abusive to me. Not much I like from Sam Harris, but a quote of his is very apt here: "There is sanity in numbers." If enough people believe the horseshit, it turns into roses. (September 16, 2017 at 8:35 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:(September 16, 2017 at 5:18 pm)Khemikal Wrote: So long as you say "disagree with god" or "god will disown you" or that "god will torture you" it's kay. And that's literally the only goddamn fucking thing it's got going for it.
Religions were invented to impress and dupe illiterate, superstitious stone-age peasants. So in this modern, enlightened age of information, what's your excuse? Or are you saying with all your advantages, you were still tricked as easily as those early humans?
--- There is no better way to convey the least amount of information in the greatest amount of words than to try explaining your religious views.  (September 15, 2017 at 5:17 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Teaching children to willfully ignore the evidence for God, that they are biological robots in a meaningless universe, that all the people the love who have passed will be eaten by worms, and that they should mock, ridicule and wish for the death of those who believe otherwise.... Ignore the non-existant?
"The last superstition of the human mind is the superstition that religion in itself is a good thing." - Samuel Porter Putnam
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