(October 3, 2017 at 8:51 am)Little lunch Wrote:

(October 3, 2017 at 5:53 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: People always get bent out of shape over a mass killing but they ignore the single killings that take tens of thousands of lives.  So until they get as outraged over one killing as they get outraged over multiple killings it seems to be just fake outrage on their part.

Look at the number of people shot YTD in Chicago =

"Year to Date
Shot & Killed: 497
Shot & Wounded: 2390
Total Shot: 2887
Total Homicides: 534"

http://heyjackass.com

Our news coverage in Australia says it's 11160 shooting deaths this year with over 300 million guns existing in America.
Apparently, after this event, gun sales will go up, as after the last mass shooting they went up by 4%.

Yep, fear sells, violence sells and the factories and NRA love it.

Technically, the fear that the events will "take their rights away" is what's pointed to in polls made to study those surges.  It's not the shooting itself, it's the politics that compel the sale.  The NRA's product is politicians, as a credentialing service for hopefuls...so, meh.  Mass shootings are good for the GOP and the NRA, but probably not good for manufacturers in the long run.

Manufacturers themselves are keenly aware of this, they've been the ones driving trends in safer and more secure gun designs for the past two decades.  Their lobby's statement on the issue is simpler than anything the NRA is going to offer.

"Our thoughts and prayers are with the families and loved ones of all those killed and injured in the crimnal attack in Las Vegas"
-full stop. That's all they're likely to say, ever, about that.

See, that's how a lobby made of manufacturers with vested interests and professionals on staff responds.  Sure, they'd really like to be able to sell arms to third and second world countries with no effective oversight....but as an actual trade lobby they know better than to go full retard.....whereas the NRA is a propaganda factory that is -required- by their model to go full retard.  The NSSF now spends more money and...quietly, shapes more policy.....than the NRA.  It's easy to see why. The NSSF was formed, in the first place, by the contention that the NRA did -not- speak for the interests of manufacturers and was actively harming their industry. I'd be pissed too, if some group people thought was representing my operations interests was a neverending stream of bad publicity for my company. Particularly if all I wanted to do was export guns to the browns in anonymity.

(October 3, 2017 at 9:18 am)Khemikal Wrote: Technically, the fear that the events will "take their rights away" is what's pointed to in polls made to study those surges.  It's not the shooting itself, it's the politics that compel the sale.  The NRA's product is politicians, as a credentialing service for hopefuls...so, meh.  Mass shootings are good for the GOP and the NRA, but probably not good for manufacturers in the long run.

Manufacturers themselves are keenly aware of this, they've been the ones driving trends in safer and more secure gun designs for the past two decades.  Their lobby's statement on the issue is simpler than anything the NRA is going to offer.

"Our thoughts and prayers are with the families and loved ones of all those killed and injured in the crimnal attack in Las Vegas"
-full stop.

See, that's how a lobby made of manufacturers with vested interests and professionals on staff responds.  Sure, they'd really like to be able to sell arms to third and second world countries with no effective oversight....but as an actual trade lobby they know better than to go full retard.....whereas the NRA is a propaganda factory that is -required- by their model to go full retard.  The NSSF now spends more money and...quietly, shapes more policy.....than the NRA.  It's easy to see why.  The NSSF was formed, in the first place, by the contention that the NRA did -not- speak for the interests of manufacturers and was actively harming their industry.  I;d be pissed to, if some group people thought was representing my operations interests was a neverending stream of bad PR for my company.  Particularly if all I wanted to do was export guns to the browns in anonymity.

It would be nice if events like this hurt the manufactures like Takata was hurt. But the truth is right now it does not. 

Now again, I am sick of the slur that any call to do something differently means I want a one party fascist state. NO, I just want America to wake up out of this bullshit delusion that we don't have a problem.

America does not want to face that we make too many and they are too easy to obtain. I don't want to hear shit from the right when they say, "Don't blame me, just keep them out of the wrong hands", then become hypocritical crybabies when we agree that we should keep them out of the wrong hands.

"Do nothing and sell more" does not work.

The reason we cant do anything is because the industry needs the death and fear to sell their products.

(October 3, 2017 at 6:37 am)Brian37 Wrote: But using Chicago is the often go to race baiting by the far right. I am not saying that is your intent, but i see that City used all the time. 

That city is used not because of racial composition, but because it has such a high rate of firearms crimes despite having some of the strictest local gun-control laws in America.

OFC it hurts them.  They know it hurts them.  Manufacturers don't want people to "do nothing" - they want people to buy new, expensive guns with features that might prevent or diminish the use in crime as a weapon.  

When you hear about gun sales going up, they're referring to the sales of box retailers in outdoor brands - who sell more old stock and used guns than new ones.  When their stock prices go up, it is due to the cold and fearless speculation on the part of financial services.  In no way does it serve a manufacturers interests to take some fraction of a 4% increase in sales for a quartyer if it means that your product line is likely to become illegal...leading to a 100% loss in all quarters. Whatever this fraction of a percent of sales amounts to in it's potential effect on stock price, only applies to publicly traded manufacturers in the first place....most aren't - and the box retailers treat the actual manufacturers to the walmart model of stock procurement.

You don;t have to assign noble motives to gun manufacturers or their lobby to understand this.  Take the completely cynical approach.  They want to keep making money.  They hire people and push policies so that they get to keep making money.  It's alot of money, so they have to hire competent people.  Those people are going to find common interest with people such as yourself, for all the wrong reasons from your pov. 

Again, the NRA is not the manufacturers lobby.  The manufacturers lobby supports all sorts of enhanced gun restrictions which amount to profitable sales. The NRA is a political credentialing service (though it's starting to become a liability in surprising places) that includes the "do nothing" approach in it's brand. When you borrow the ladder, you get the rungs.

(October 3, 2017 at 9:43 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(October 3, 2017 at 6:37 am)Brian37 Wrote: But using Chicago is the often go to race baiting by the far right. I am not saying that is your intent, but i see that City used all the time. 

That city is used not because of racial composition, but because it has such a high rate of firearms crimes despite having some of the strictest local gun-control laws in America.

Um no, that is certainly the excuse used yes, but it is still dog whistle bullshit for assholes like 45 to call black NFL players "sons of bitches".

But we can go there if you wish. It isn't a matter of the laws being strict, it is a matter of not having a nationwide standard. Of course the laws wont work because guns don't magically stop working in transport.

It still amounts to access. Not legal vs illegal. 

This is simply more bullshit the nutters use to make excuses to do nothing. So when they cant flat out sell bigotry, they make it about states rights.

And again, I live in the sticks and I hear stories in NC in a rural area, about gun violence here too. The only reason you hear about more in the city is because it has a bigger population. It isn't a mater of strict, it is a matter of a flooded market nationwide.

What would Chicago be like with NO gun control laws?

(October 3, 2017 at 8:51 am)Little lunch Wrote:

(October 3, 2017 at 5:53 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: People always get bent out of shape over a mass killing but they ignore the single killings that take tens of thousands of lives.  So until they get as outraged over one killing as they get outraged over multiple killings it seems to be just fake outrage on their part.

Look at the number of people shot YTD in Chicago =

"Year to Date
Shot & Killed: 497
Shot & Wounded: 2390
Total Shot: 2887
Total Homicides: 534"

http://heyjackass.com

Our news coverage in Australia says it's 11160 shooting deaths this year with over 300 million guns existing in America.
Apparently, after this event, gun sales will go up, as after the last mass shooting they went up by 4%.

These things are tragic, and my heart goes out to those families who lost loved ones.
However; it is a bit naive, to think that removing one of the means, is going to solve the underlying issue.  And when you look at places where gun controls have been enacted, this shows in the data.

Do nothing, the NRA gun control plan.

Can't remember where I saw it, but someone summed it up as "This isn't about gun control that we refuse to enact, it's about mental healthcare that we refuse to fund."