(October 3, 2017 at 11:42 am)Aoi Magi Wrote:

(October 3, 2017 at 10:46 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: I have serious doubts about the "brainwashing" bit: "brainwash" is more of an excuse to justify the negative look that judges others of being "robots" that don't think.

I am mentioning that part from my own experiences as I spent a good portion of my childhood in a muslim community. The brainwashing here isn't done in the sense of let's say, Alex Jones, rather it happens with the parents trying to pass on their own cultural values unquestionably, often with strict enforcement, without fostering the child's ability to think critically. And this problem is not limited to just muslim parents, but most non-skeptic parents.

I just tend to not give humans the "benefit of the doubt" at all times; it's not that I'm too rough, but the brain is one tough organ, and most of us have it.
It's just sad to see young women growing up to believe the crap their parents throw at them. Admitting that your own parents are tools of a wrong culture is hard, but that's how you revolt against bad culture, and that's how you advance.

It's not a throwing of the blame on Muslim women; but if they took the decision to rebel against the men, and took the decision to fight instead of submitting, things would've been different for them. Yep; I understand it's not the Alex Jones type of brainwashing; but it's fear. The same fear chocking most Muslims -even men-, from admitting the wrongs and fight for what is right. The result is us getting butchered like cattle eventually at the hands of terrorists and dictators.

As women were forced to wear the Niqab; men were forced to do other sad stuff like shooting their own in places like Egypt and Syria. It's a sickness that humans have; but humans who agree to live under slavery get the worst of it. The saddest thing is when you see a woman mutilating the vagina of her daughter -in an obvious mirroring of what she saw in her life-, and put her daughter then inside a bag -just like she was put inside it-, instead of fighting the evil religious institution that turned our lives into a living hell.

(October 3, 2017 at 6:31 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I dont mind a head scarf, but I find something like the burka dehumanizing. You're reducing a person down to a sexual temptation... taking away their face, their human shape, their identity, everything...

Yes, also, the comparison to nuns misses the mark.  They wear it out of choice not because some asshole will throw rocks at them if they don't.  Oh maybe in times gone by the pope would thrown a few rocks at them but he lacks the power now.

And that's for the best.

What you have with the burqa is ignorant men with a book of allegedly holy horseshit telling women they MUST do something and that removes the element of choice.

(October 3, 2017 at 6:58 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: . . . in the name of a false religion

Pretty sure this shit was imported from the underlying culture that gave rise to Islam ... rebranding at its finest.

Yep; just wanted to note a few things; what the hell is this post doing in the political section anyways, and this:

Quote:This sentiment seems to be actually growing..

It's 2017; OP.
Islamophobia is as ancient as 2001, post 9/11... IDK but you seem late; very very late to notice !

I mean there are Muslim women that got attacked by rightist extremists over Europe and America, Niqab and Hijab banned in France, Islamic Bikini got introduced; Tunisia ban over Hijab in some places; Egypt prohibiting Niqab in military festivals.
Xenophobia is your answer, and Islamophobia. The debate over this was so furious since 2001.. Worldwide. even in Muslim Arab societies where Islam and Niqab are so cultural.

(October 3, 2017 at 12:13 am)pool the matey Wrote: This sentiment seems to be actually growing..
Any idea why this is happening? I happened to see an interview of the granddaughter of Hitler's financial minister who is apparently leading a party in Germany, not sure about that but apparently her position is that nuns that wear headscarf can do it but Muslims can't.

What is going on? Like most of you already know I don't live anywhere near where this anti Muslim sentiments are growing but I am curious as to why this is happening

It's gender discrimination in it's purest form. When Muslim men walk next to their burqa-clad wives and sisters fully covered from head to toe, I'll say live and let live.

The "nuns cover up too and nobody complains about them" argument doesn't fly, either. Male catholics who turn their lives over to their religion - priests - also wear a sort of uniform. I grew up catholic and saw many a priest in social situations - none showed a lot of skin or wore flashy chains or anything of the sort, they all dressed conservatively, in a similar manner as the women. Not to say that women are treated equally in catholicism but this particular argument about what nuns wear is bogus.

-Teresa

(October 3, 2017 at 7:03 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(October 3, 2017 at 6:31 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I dont mind a head scarf, but I find something like the burka dehumanizing. You're reducing a person down to a sexual temptation... taking away their face, their human shape, their identity, everything...

It also demeans men, implying all of them are no better than bearded Muslims evidently incapable of the least resistance to the basest animal urges.

In the Bible when Tamar wore her burka it was the costume for hookers.  She turned a trick with her father-in-law. So the women wore them as a way to screw whoever they wanted to and get paid for it.

(October 3, 2017 at 4:09 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Not sure if anyone has pointed this out yet, but a burka is not a head scarf. Not even close.

Some muslim women actually do wear headscarf. The reason why I brought it up was because I saw an interview of some German political party leader who was the granddaughter of Hitler's financial minister talking about how she is okay with a Christian wearing a headscarf but not a Muslim doing the same. When the interviewer asked her "what difference does it make" she said something to the effect of "uh well we're a Christian country they can go wear it in a Muslim country"

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Minimalist Wrote:What you have with the burqa is ignorant men with a book of allegedly holy horseshit telling women they MUST do something and that removes the element of choice.

Sure, in a Muslim country this is true. They probably don't have a choice but in a first world developed country they DO have that choice, nobody is going to stone them to death for example. Even in a third world non Muslim country(the kind of country I live in) there's no such pressure except for religious special days, I can only imagine the pressure lessens in a first world non Muslim country. Most likely a woman wearing a burqa in america for example isn't being forced to do it against her will with some threat to kill her. Some nosy people especially Christian men don't like this, one guy didn't like it to the extend that he'd try to forcibly strip a Muslim woman naked in broad daylight. So the sentiments are clear.

(October 3, 2017 at 11:19 pm)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote:

(October 3, 2017 at 7:03 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: It also demeans men, implying all of them are no better than bearded Muslims evidently incapable of the least resistance to the basest animal urges.

In the Bible when Tamar wore her burka it was the costume for hookers.  She turned a trick with her father-in-law. So the women wore them as a way to screw whoever they wanted to and get paid for it.

Today they call that "alimony."

I've heard Muslim women defend it as a way of prohibiting themselves from being looked upon and judged for their attractiveness (or lack thereof, as the case may be) and while I can't see any intrinsic flaw with wanting to do that for that reason, I don't for a minute believe that's the only, or even biggest, reason for them doing that. I'm fine with someone making a completely informed, free-of-coercion choice to accept certain stereotypical or perceived degrading roles like homemaker and parent with no higher education or career prospects if that is what they genuinely want. But if you're brought up in a culture that has a strong influence on not being given all the facts, not being given as many choices, having those with authority over you constantly influencing you to think or behave a certain way, that sort of takes the autonomy out of the choice. It may not be indoctrination the way we see some ideas form, but if opportunity is stymied, one can't really say a person is doing something like that of their own volition given how differently things might have gone with a broader spectrum of choice and knowledge.

(October 3, 2017 at 9:44 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: The debate over this was so furious since 2001.. Worldwide. even in Muslim Arab societies where Islam and Niqab are so cultural.

Good. Those are exactly the societies where debate is most needed, right?