Why do people get angry seeing a Burqa

[Bob Kelso]

Brian, dude, do you need a xanax? We were specifically talking about burqas and Pool brought up the Christian version in the OP. No one said anything about oppression being a quality of only the two mentioned. I mean what the fuck is this?

I don't need a chill pill.

I do get frustrated that the long term picture in our entire species history of written religion gets missed. That's all.

When you consider antiquity, this applies worldwide. Back then humans had no clue what DNA was. All anyone knew back then was men had brawn, and men were considered the head of the house, and just like the kings they lived under, they saw women/girls as things to be bartered. The idea of bonding between families was done through the bartering of females. 

That was the case even in polytheism, even in Buddhism and Hinduism. Humans simply had no concept of female equality. 

And even in polytheism, if you average out all the male gods vs female goddesses you still have a male domination going on.

Even when taking gods out of it, even in Buddhism, there still is no opportunity for a female to become the next Dali Lama, just like you wont see a female Pope.

I don't bring this up to call for an end to religion, but to point out the ignorance of antiquity. Female equality is a recent push in the west and it came about in spite of religion, not because of it.

Point to my response to you is that I agree, Christians have their sexists like Islam does, but again, there are more than 2 religions and every religion has it's pockets of sexist men to greater or lesser degrees. Gender clothing is one aspect of how sexism get's perpetuated. 

I am not blowing a gasket. If you want that, point to the people who get mad because you point out the sexist roots of the Burka. All I said is sexism exists worldwide.

Nothing wrong with being aware of things, Brian, being knowledgeable is fantastic, but sometimes people talk about certain topics covering specific areas. I'd like to give most of us on this forum the benefit of the doubt when it comes to being aware of the issues that tend to pervade all religions.

[Brian37]

I don't need a chill pill.

I do get frustrated that the long term picture in our entire species history of written religion gets missed. That's all.

When you consider antiquity, this applies worldwide. Back then humans had no clue what DNA was. All anyone knew back then was men had brawn, and men were considered the head of the house, and just like the kings they lived under, they saw women/girls as things to be bartered. The idea of bonding between families was done through the bartering of females. 

That was the case even in polytheism, even in Buddhism and Hinduism. Humans simply had no concept of female equality. 

And even in polytheism, if you average out all the male gods vs female goddesses you still have a male domination going on.

Even when taking gods out of it, even in Buddhism, there still is no opportunity for a female to become the next Dali Lama, just like you wont see a female Pope.

I don't bring this up to call for an end to religion, but to point out the ignorance of antiquity. Female equality is a recent push in the west and it came about in spite of religion, not because of it.

Point to my response to you is that I agree, Christians have their sexists like Islam does, but again, there are more than 2 religions and every religion has it's pockets of sexist men to greater or lesser degrees. Gender clothing is one aspect of how sexism get's perpetuated. 

I am not blowing a gasket. If you want that, point to the people who get mad because you point out the sexist roots of the Burka. All I said is sexism exists worldwide.

Nothing wrong with being aware of things, Brian, being knowledgeable is fantastic, but sometimes people talk about certain topics covering specific areas. I'd like to give most of us on this forum the benefit of the doubt when it comes to being aware of the issues that tend to pervade all religions.

What do you mean I cant stick every theist on a barbecue? Such a party pooper.

"It rubs the lotion on it's skin or else it gets the hose." (Note to self, did I think this or type it?)

[FatAndFaithless]

I think it's more that you just tend to..like 100% of the time.. come in out of left field with posts that are either barely tangentially related or utterly unrelated to the discussion at hand, Brian.

[Brian37]

I think it's more that you just tend to..like 100% of the time.. come in out of left field with posts that are either barely tangentially related or utterly unrelated to the discussion at hand, Brian.

NO, more like not enough humans look at the bigger picture.

You can get stuck on all the different colors and flavors of ice cream and forget that it is all ice cream.

Humans falsely think that their behaviors come from a club label, that they are jumping off the print of a book, no, it is the opposite. WE, write down our bad guesses as a projection of our own desires as a species.


It is no different the mistake humans make when they watch the weather and hear "scattered thunderstorm" then call then think the weather reporter is an idiot because it didn't rain. They don't consider the entire area collectively which is far bigger than looking out your own window.

Christians and Muslims and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists certainly have different details yes, but in our collective history as a species, not enough humans face the fact that there was a time before any written religion, and our species was still being cruel and compassionate like we can be and are today.

It is not out of nowhere to offer a wider perspective.

[FatAndFaithless]

I think it's more that you just tend to..like 100% of the time.. come in out of left field with posts that are either barely tangentially related or utterly unrelated to the discussion at hand, Brian.

NO, more like not enough humans look at the bigger picture.

You can get stuck on all the different colors and flavors of ice cream and forget that it is all ice cream.

Humans falsely think that their behaviors come from a club label, that they are jumping off the print of a book, no, it is the opposite. WE, write down our bad guesses as a projection of our own desires as a species.


It is no different the mistake humans make when they watch the weather and hear "scattered thunderstorm" then call then think the weather reporter is an idiot because it didn't rain. They don't consider the entire area collectively which is far bigger than looking out your own window.

Christians and Muslims and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists certainly have different details yes, but in our collective history as a species, not enough humans face the fact that there was a time before any written religion, and our species was still being cruel and compassionate like we can be and are today.

It is not out of nowhere to offer a wider perspective.

If we're having a discussion about out favorite flavors of ice cream, and then you make a post about how certain flavors of ice cream are more popular with Christians, and then that some Christians are violently anti-gay marriage, and then that violently anti-gay marriage people are usually Republicans...  that's not offering a wider perspective, that just you derailing the conversation.

[brewer]

I think it's more that you just tend to..like 100% of the time.. come in out of left field with posts that are either barely tangentially related or utterly unrelated to the discussion at hand, Brian.

Hold the phone, did I miss republicans, big oil, big pharma, big corporations, ................

Back to page one I guess.

[WinterHold]

Burqa is associated with oppression and rightly so, most people are against this oppression, but I won't deny that there are many bigots too who are just out to bully the minorities.

Regarding the "choice" of wearing burqa, most muslim women are brainwashed from childhood to make them believe that wearing the burqa is by their own choice and a part of their identity. People will often fight tooth and nails against anything they perceive as a threat to their identity, so giving them the choice cannot be done through any law or legal means, rather the only way for them to truly recognize their rights is through proper education.

I have serious doubts about the "brainwashing" bit: "brainwash" is more of an excuse to justify the negative look that judges others of being "robots" that don't think.
I totally agree on the oppression part though; the Niqab is usually enforced by force; especially in the Middle East, Pakistan, Afghanistan, India...etc.

Moreover; the origin of the outfit in modern times is from Saudi Arabia's Wahhabi reign, it always accompanied their Fatawas and Islamic-Sunni literature, and it did find a very good support from the local poor populations abroad.

The Niqab was widely spread, by the power of oil money supporting it, as a main bullet in the Wahhabi expansion.
I would defiantly agree on this:

People will often fight tooth and nails against anything they perceive as a threat to their identity, so giving them the choice cannot be done through any law or legal means, rather the only way for them to truly recognize their rights is through proper education.

[Aoi Magi]

Burqa is associated with oppression and rightly so, most people are against this oppression, but I won't deny that there are many bigots too who are just out to bully the minorities.

Regarding the "choice" of wearing burqa, most muslim women are brainwashed from childhood to make them believe that wearing the burqa is by their own choice and a part of their identity. People will often fight tooth and nails against anything they perceive as a threat to their identity, so giving them the choice cannot be done through any law or legal means, rather the only way for them to truly recognize their rights is through proper education.

I have serious doubts about the "brainwashing" bit: "brainwash" is more of an excuse to justify the negative look that judges others of being "robots" that don't think.

I am mentioning that part from my own experiences as I spent a good portion of my childhood in a muslim community. The brainwashing here isn't done in the sense of let's say, Alex Jones, rather it happens with the parents trying to pass on their own cultural values unquestionably, often with strict enforcement, without fostering the child's ability to think critically. And this problem is not limited to just muslim parents, but most non-skeptic parents.

[Minimalist]

There is nothing wrong with the Burqa itself. It is a religious and also somewhat cultural symbol of the Islamic faith. It's no different in most respects than a Christian person wearing a cross around their neck or a Sikh person wearing a turban in general. I do know that some people think negatively of it because they think that it undermines a woman's rights. They think it reinforces the oppression many women endure on a day to day basis, and they don't think it's fair that men get to decide what women ought to wear while men themselves do not have to cover their faces.

According to the Bible Jewish women were wearing burqas before they could walk.  It was primarily used by hookers.  

And Paul said that Christian women were to cover their heads in church or else the men were to grab them and shave their heads.

That "paul" if he existed was a real prick.

[paulpablo]

With it obviously being impossible to speak for all people, and I'm not sure if anger is the right word, I'd say there's bound to be a general dislike to the burqa because of instinctive human social behavior and how odd it feels to talk to someone without a face.

Unless you have autism in relation to reading facial expressions and don't pay attention to them anyway, it's very odd to talk to a woman who has the body and arms of a woman but the head that could basically be a piece of furniture, with eyes if a burqa is without the veil.  If it's with a veil then you really might aswell be socially interacting with a pillow.

I've previously thought that if I was a Muslim woman I might wear one in this county when it's winter purely because it's a piece of clothing that's going to keep your nose and ears warm, plus it probably helps keep out germs that cause colds aswell.

I've seen a group of muslim women on the way to work in the winter and half of me is thinking wow you look like a group of weird , ninja, cult warriors.  On the other hand I'm thinking if I could get away with wearing that I'd probably go for it.  Not in summer though.


It's also not just racist westerners who aren't keen on the burqa, government in Muslim majority countries have various laws banning the burqa from certain jobs/areas and so on.