(October 10, 2017 at 3:01 pm)Astreja Wrote:

(October 10, 2017 at 1:25 pm)Jehanne Wrote: It's very sad to "live" for the day when one must die with the hope of attaining some state that does not exist.

I hesitate to even call that living.  If you need to somehow justify your present existence with some hypothetical future reason, and look forward to future happiness rather than fully engaging with life in the present, you're doing it wrong.

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(October 10, 2017 at 1:49 pm)wallym Wrote: {Meaning is} better than subjective.  It's physiological.  It's just some internal wiring.   It's so rudimentary that it's pretty hilarious we take it so seriously.  We're like simple video game characters.  "You gave me a potato.  You now have meaning +1 to me."

There may be an element of that, but I think the wiring has a fair amount of plasticity and that we can deliberately modify it with things like repeated actions.  (Either that, or my wiring has been optimized for woodwinds, chocolate, and insomnia...)

I don't agree with blindly swallowing a fictional second shot no. Just like I don't buy the Hindu or Buddhist superstition of multiple lives in reincarnation.

But I also don't like "fully engaging" because that is simply another stupid ploy the rich use to get you to become their cheap labor.

Life isn't an either or script, and there is no one correct way to live it. If your idea of partaking in life is expending energy 16 hours a day 6 or 7 days a week, that is still just you. Most humans like and need balance in their lives. And me, my idea of life is staying at home, and being at home. I don't want to sweat all my waking hours just because someone else says I should. 

I want to be me, and being at home is me. That is my life, and I like it simple. I don't see the need to spend tons of money every day, or sweat because someone else thinks I should. If all we have is one life, and I agree, we only get one, than there is only one right way to live your life. BE YOURSELF, because trying to be a clone of someone else to me is bullshit.

I only agree that "fully engaged" to me, means being self aware and being aware of the world around you. Outside that it isn't a mater of running yourself into the ground physically. 

My late mom wanted only one thing for me, to be happy, and that really is all one can strive to do.

(October 10, 2017 at 12:08 pm)Khemikal Wrote: If that's what you would do, if you were religious..then..quixotically, religion needs more people like you.  Not giving a shit about anything isn't something you do "as an atheist" ,however.  Your meaningless life has nothing to do with atheism, that's all you.

I disagree, an atheist really can't claim that life began by total accident and then claim life has a purpose... what is the endgame exactly?

If we look at animals for instance we can see their purpose within an ecosystem, there is a reason for example that predators exist.
https://www.livingwithwolves.org/about-w...es-matter/

Quote:Wolves play a very important role in the ecosystems in which they live. Since 1995, when wolves were reintroduced to the American West, research has shown that in many places they have helped revitalize and restore ecosystems. They improve habitat and increase populations of countless species from birds of prey to pronghorn, and even trout. The presence of wolves influences the population and behavior of their prey, changing the browsing and foraging patterns of prey animals and how they move about the land. This, in turn, ripples throughout plant and animal communities, often altering the landscape itself. For this reason wolves are described as a “keystone species,” whose presence is vital to maintaining the health, structure and balance of ecosystems.

The purpose of the human being is to serve God, and you accomplish that by living for others. If you live a selfish lifestyle then your life IS meaningless. Not to say there aren't selfish so-called Christians, but an atheist ideology could indeed influence one to lead or believe they lead a meaningless life.

Quote:I disagree, an atheist really can't claim that life began by total accident and then claim life has a purpose... what is the endgame exactly?

1. Yes he can because life is not defined by origins
2. The end game is to live and then not .  

Quote:If we look at animals for instance we can see their purpose within an ecosystem, there is a reason for example that predators exist. 

No we can't simply existing and having a an effect on a system does not show purpose . That's just stupid 

Quote:The purpose of the human being is to serve God

That's not a purpose that's an arbitrary imposition 

Quote: and you accomplish that by living for others. 

That's not a purpose that's an arbitrary imposition

Quote:If you live a selfish lifestyle then your life IS meaningless

That's an opinion not a fact and once again i see no difference

Quote: . Not to say there aren't selfish so-called Christian

Not a true scotsmen 

Quote:but an atheist ideology could indeed influence one to lead or believe they lead a meaningless life.

No such animal exists

Since I was born, I've been having a near death experience.
I'm enjoying it while it lasts... Too busy living to worry about not living.
Life is a binary state.

(October 10, 2017 at 8:01 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: No we can't simply existing and having a an effect on a system does not show purpose . That's just stupid 

You can't by definition be part of a system and have no purpose... THAT'S stupid.

http://e360.yale.edu/features/the_crucia...on_ecology

Quote:Just as the world’s lions, tigers, and bears are disappearing worldwide, a scientific consensus is emerging that they are critical to ecosystem function, exerting control over smaller predators, prey, and the plant world.

(October 10, 2017 at 8:30 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(October 10, 2017 at 8:01 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: No we can't simply existing and having a an effect on a system does not show purpose . That's just stupid 

You can't by definition be part of a system and have no purpose... THAT'S stupid.

http://e360.yale.edu/features/the_crucia...on_ecology

Quote:Just as the world’s lions, tigers, and bears are disappearing worldwide, a scientific consensus is emerging that they are critical to ecosystem function, exerting control over smaller predators, prey, and the plant world.

 Ecosystem =/= purpose and certainly not a grand purpose as I know you're implying.

Trust me I know.

(October 10, 2017 at 8:52 pm)Nay_Sayer Wrote: Ecosystem =/= purpose and certainly not a grand purpose as I know you're implying.

Trust me I know.

So it's your position that organisms in general, provide no benefit to the overall health of an ecosystem?

(October 10, 2017 at 8:58 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(October 10, 2017 at 8:52 pm)Nay_Sayer Wrote: Ecosystem =/= purpose and certainly not a grand purpose as I know you're implying.

Trust me I know.

So it's your position that organisms in general, provide no benefit to the overall health of an ecosystem?

Doesn't matter if they do.

Your implication is that the ecosystem is the grand purpose, Which is like saying the grand purpose of water is to be in the exact shape of the hole it's in.

(October 10, 2017 at 9:24 pm)Nay_Sayer Wrote:

(October 10, 2017 at 8:58 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: So it's your position that organisms in general, provide no benefit to the overall health of an ecosystem?

Doesn't matter if they do.

Your implication is that the ecosystem is the grand purpose, Which is like saying the grand purpose of water is to be in the exact shape of the hole it's in.

Dumb analogy, seeing how water isn't classified as a system...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System

Quote:A system is a regularly interacting or interdependent group of items forming a unified whole. Every system is delineated by its spatial and temporal boundaries, surrounded and influenced by its environment, described by its structure and purpose and expressed in its functioning.

(October 10, 2017 at 3:33 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I don't agree with blindly swallowing a fictional second shot no. Just like I don't buy the Hindu or Buddhist superstition of multiple lives in reincarnation.

But I also don't like "fully engaging" because that is simply another stupid ploy the rich use to get you to become their cheap labor.

I didn't mean engaging in the sense of buying into an employer's mission statement and then working one's ass off.  I'm thinking more in terms of mindfulness:  Doing one thing at a time without task-switching, and quieting down self-talk and concentrating on what I'm actually doing.  It's something that I can do equally well at home, work, and elsewhere.  When I do that, it's easy to slip into a "flow" state where my attention has a narrow, strong focus and the hours just fly past.  (If anything, it makes my workday seem half as long.)

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(October 10, 2017 at 7:49 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: I disagree, an atheist really can't claim that life began by total accident and then claim life has a purpose...  what is the endgame exactly?

No endgame required.  I don't care if my life has some overarching purpose; it's more important that my actions have purposes, plural.

Quote:The purpose of the human being is to serve God, and you accomplish that by living for others. If you live a selfish lifestyle then your life IS meaningless. Not to say there aren't selfish so-called Christians, but an atheist ideology could indeed influence one to lead or believe they lead a meaningless life.

Not interested in living out an alleged purpose assigned to me by a fictional entity.  You, sirrah, do not get to dictate my meaning.