Emjay:

Quote:MysticKnight

(October 20, 2017 at 9:55 pm)emjay Wrote: Still waiting to hear if you want to chuck me off a roof, MK. I don't care if you do, but I want to know where you stand on that.

Well On my knowledge:

1) If there is punishment, it certainly is not death.
2) The reasoning of a man and woman being punished for sex outside wedlock is not the same as that has consequences in form children being born out of wedlock and other problems.
3) The nature of the choice is not the same, it is more of psychological caving in type thing....so I don't think a punishment will cure that or help in any form.
4) In conclusion, I don't know, not sure, have to research more, can't apply apples to oranges.

Honestly, it is so refreshing to see one Muslim going after another one on here. It's sort of weird seeing Atlas calling MK a troll though.

Not sure how to digest that. I guess we'll wait for MK's response to Atlas.

(October 21, 2017 at 3:58 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Emjay:

Quote:MysticKnight

Well On my knowledge:

1) If there is punishment, it certainly is not death.
2) The reasoning of a man and woman being punished for sex outside wedlock is not the same as that has consequences in form children being born out of wedlock and other problems.
3) The nature of the choice is not the same, it is more of psychological caving in type thing....so I don't think a punishment will cure that or help in any form.
4) In conclusion, I don't know, not sure, have to research more, can't apply apples to oranges.

Yeah, hammy pointed that out to me... I may have overreacted in thinking you'd gone over to the dark(er) side... yet at least.

But as I said before, I don't understand the logic behind your religion doing all god's judgment for it; if god is the supreme judge, why not let him actually do it? If you're wrong about his existence, even just hypothetically, then you've (as in your religion) killed and tortured a lot of people that god... if he existed... would be perfectly capable of torturing for himself when they reached the end of their life (without your helping hand in that process), so in a kind of strange messed up version of Pascal's wager, how can you justify that on the offchance that you're wrong from your perspective? And similarly, does not hastening the process, deprive god of potential penitents, who might have, over the course of their life, come to god, but had lost that opportunity by god's followers taking it upon themselves to kill them for their transgressions at the earliest possible opportunity?

(October 20, 2017 at 11:46 pm)Losty Wrote:

(October 20, 2017 at 9:50 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I will never accept homosexuals or bisexuals in the sense I will never condone their actions as moral or neutral, to me they are evil choices they have made.

I have presented so far four arguments in this thread, and I have more, as to why they are evil choices. And as the clarity from God expected regarding this, that is another argument, I have not argued because it will just turn to another debate about God and we all know the reason people deny God is to avoid his judgment and submission to his chosen Leaders who he has given authority to.

It makes me sad that you have become this hateful person. I'm sorry that you don't accept me and you think I'm evil. For what it's worth, I do believe there is good in you and I truly hope that you will one day choose to seek treatment for your illness. For your own sake. Take care MK, I still care about you regardless of if you think I'm evil.

Losty, I don't think you are evil. And I know another person who I don't think is evil either and she is homosexual. In fact, two others. Which means I am in a contradiction. Inner conflict.

I know your Bisexual, and this is not an easy matter for me.

So will be investigating the whole issue of religion and debating it with myself, and this issue more.

I have to reinvestigate or sort out the conflict I am in.

Perhaps the creed I follow demands too much hate. I am not sure, will have to reinvestigate things.

(October 20, 2017 at 9:50 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: I will never accept homosexuals or bisexuals in the sense I will never condone their actions as moral or neutral, to me they are evil choices they have made.

I have presented so far four arguments in this thread, and I have more, as to why they are evil choices. And as the clarity from God expected regarding this, that is another argument, I have not argued because it will just turn to another debate about God and we all know the reason people deny God is to avoid his judgment and submission to his chosen Leaders who he has given authority to.

Homosexuality is no more moral/immoral than any other sexuality. Look at Harvey Wienstein, definitely not a gay but his use of sex is evil.

what does it matter to you who people are attracted to?
Why is it or should it be any of your business.

On another note you are getting worryingly militant, I suspect you have fallen in with the wrong crowd.

Go out, have some fun.

(October 21, 2017 at 4:24 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Perhaps the creed I follow demands too much hate. I am not sure, will have to reinvestigate things.

If God is real, I would have the expectation that over time, things will get better. If a religion is at odds with the opinions of the kindest people you can find, then it is almost for sure not a true religion of God. Surely if God is love, then an unloving stance toward all people, whatever their backgrounds, must be required.

I can see something like, "We believe homosexuality is wrong. . . but as fellow sinners, we must embrace you, accept you, and hope that God will straighten you out." But "Die faggots! Off the roof you go!" surely cannot be what God intends.

I'm sure that many gods intend just that, lol.  They're not the nicest things, you know.

(October 21, 2017 at 4:00 am)Joods Wrote: Honestly, it is so refreshing to see one Muslim going after another one on here. It's sort of weird seeing Atlas calling MK a troll though.

Not sure how to digest that. I guess we'll wait for MK's response to Atlas.

Matters like "Homosexuality" are already a big thing in his faith; in the Middle East, Shiite and Sunni societies already have their harsh opinions, and it's one of the biggest problems Muslim societies suffer from.

The biggest Shiite community (the country of Iran) execute homosexuals by hanging them from cranes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Iran

Quote:LGBT rights in Iran have come in conflict with the penal code since the 1930s.[1] Homosexuality is a crime punishable by imprisonment,[2] corporal punishment, or by execution

[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment][/url]
So I really doubt how he posts "as if he knows nothing about this". I mean; I live in the Middle East. Homosexuality is so a no no; nobody should even smell you do it (unless they are already homosexual or bisexual like you).

It's a capital crime with execution hanged to it in both Shiite Iran and Sunni Saudi Arabia. To be a Sunni or a Shiite Muslim, it's one of the earliest things our parents and community teach us after puberty. The OP should discuss that in my opinion. 

He doesn't show all his faith; and hiding what you might not like from the faith he believes in but showing what members here might agree on, is a bad indication in my dictionary. You must show all the details of your faith if you have trust in what you believe; he hides lots of things in the faith he advocates to not get lynched for it.

Magic book is pretty clear on homosexuality being an evil, and punishable, transgression against god.

(October 20, 2017 at 8:26 pm)Fireball Wrote:

(October 20, 2017 at 7:21 pm)Lutrinae Wrote: And I wonder how old that dictionary is. You know they get updated, right?

All those definitions and variants, and only one refers to the religious aspect. PICK THAT CHERRY, boi!

And that one definition is wrong, it defines anti-theism, not secularism.