(November 15, 2017 at 11:30 am)Whateverist Wrote: So how is the sacred experienced differently by theists and atheists, and what might it have looked like before the idea of God arose?

We have a pretty good idea of what it looked like, in point of fact.  It was an explosion of reverence for life itself...all of it, including it's attendant savagery.  A-rational, wasteful, extravagant...expensive and impractical.  Shrines in the middle of nowhere, graves full of needful things.  Painstakingly well crafted jewelry, ceremonial paraphernalia, and assorted goods gathered and intentionally wasted en-mass.  

Puts a stuffy ass church and their puritan gods to shame.....which is, ofc, why they had to be eradicated.  Beauty, and even a reverence for life itself, was pagan. The pious reject these things...and that trend began as soon as gods became a thing to be served. Asceticism has it's roots in the priestly caste.

Not that temples and churches didn't (or don't) appreciate the value of this behavior. What portion was once set aside in celebration (and expectation) of life itself...they diverted to their own coffers as a tax. It's no coincidence that religion as we know it sprung up, initially, in civilization as we know it. The gods have always been a lever of civic control in direct competition and contradiction with the urges we naturally come by to ascribe a sacred meaning to what cannot -be- controlled.

So forget the monuments. Forget the baby. Just keep the fresh clean baby smell but leave it disembodied. Works for me.

Under that definition, I would describe Halloween(as it is celebrated in the modern-day) as sacred to me.
Also, vegetarianism is also very important to me. I just have a lot of empathy for animals, and it's important to me that I avoid eating meat. It frustrates me that should I ever find myself in a prison or something, my dietary choices probably won't be taken seriously as I can't claim it's for religious reasons. It's just more ethical to me but I fear that it may not be recognized as such to the state, and instead I'll be seen as being trendy.

(November 15, 2017 at 11:30 am)Whateverist Wrote: The sacred for those of us who have not invested it with subjecthood, it is still motivating and uplifting.  One is inspired to act on its behalf.  We value contact with whatever it may be.  I can see where even the words "devotion" and "serve" can be applied.  The difference I think is that the sacred we perceive does not command our actions, it only inspires them.  If we seek to serve it we recognize how that is self serving in that it will allow us to maintain the connection.

This is well said. When I gaze upon the universe and contemplate it, I do feel inspired. Likely because it reframes how I view my existence in comparison to everything else. I think these feelings, these kinds of thoughts, are why so many of us are secular humanists. Because when you realize that you're a vulnerable sack of meat and water living on a spinning ball of mud in the ass end of the galaxy, well, you try to find ways to make things better for yourself and all the other vulnerable sacks of meat and water you have to share the mud with. And you also realize that a lot of the things designed to control us and pit us against one another - gender, race, religion, etc. - are really arbitrary, and certainly not worth the attention they're given.

I'm the only theist who voted. Poop.

I remain amazed at my differing reactions to the Vietnam Memorial and the AIDS Quilt, so I understand people having different reactions to different items in that category.

I have many friends commemorated in the AIDS Quilt, I've made a panel for it too. It is simultaneously for me an absolutely compelling and emotionally overwhelming display for me to experience.

And it is such a contrast to the Vietnam Memorial. That cold black stone just is (for me) such a grim and awful thing, I can hardly stand to look at it. Curiously, there was controversy before it was built, many folks didn't like the proposal. I did, BTW. But seeing it built in RL was awful. It is so cold and grim, I couldn't be around it.

The AIDS Quilt is just a profoundly different memorial. Guess our tribes there (soldiers and gays, FTMP) just don't intersect that much in Venn world.

Boobs.

Boobs are sacred!

(November 15, 2017 at 9:02 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Boobs.

Boobs are sacred!

I can agree with this.

Boobs? I suck at those.

Sentience and suffering.

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(November 15, 2017 at 9:42 pm)Martian Mermaid Wrote:

(November 15, 2017 at 9:02 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Boobs.

Boobs are sacred!

I can agree with this.

Well . . . they're certainly succulent

I'm also a big fan of vaginas.