(December 24, 2017 at 9:13 am)Wololo Wrote:

(December 24, 2017 at 6:12 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: God, that’s horrible. 😞.  I’m pro-choice, but twenty weeks is too late.  I support bans on twenty week abortions unless there is an immediate danger to mother and/or baby.  I mean, where do we/should we draw the line?  And, why does this guy sound so proud of him self?!

A) Twenty weeks is not too late. The foetus is not viable outside the womb. That viability figure hasn't budged since the UK set 24 weeks as the limit in the 60s.

I understand that.  And, what I’m saying is that it is my opinion that viability, as the sole criterion for the legality of an abortion, is an outdated, oversimplified, rudimentary, and frankly, lazy approach to determining the value of human life.  Especially considering what we know about the complexity of human gestation.  I think it’s a perfectly fair subject for debate.

(December 24, 2017 at 10:41 am)notimportant1234 Wrote: Well , this is what happens when people can't have a healty conversation

That went out the window when the GOP got a scapegoating jackass elected who panders to the far right which would love nothing more than to have  a Christian version of ISIS here.

If they claim it is their God's job to judge, and his alone, then they still have no fucking business sticking their nose in it. 

AND we also never get a good response as to what the punishment for the girl/women should be, if they insist on calling it murder. 

If they call it murder, why stop at killing the doctors? Why not shoot even the underage girls, after all they insist on calling it murder.

Our country has been hijacked by a far right minority, and even outside the issue of abortion, that far right is seeking to destroy our open society. The far right are the same assholes who really want the end of the world to come, at the expense of all others outside their cub dying horrible deaths according to their book of mythology.

IT IS NONSENSE, and not only nonsense, DANGEROUS NONSENSE.

(December 24, 2017 at 10:37 am)Tizheruk Wrote: This is not proof of conscience only the capacity to respond to stimuli . By that logic bacteria are conscience .

Bacteria aren’t ever going to gestate into people.

(December 24, 2017 at 10:59 am)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(December 24, 2017 at 10:37 am)Tizheruk Wrote: This is not proof of conscience only the capacity to respond to stimuli . By that logic bacteria are conscience .

Bacteria aren’t ever going to gestate into people.

True but not relevant . If our criteria is a current conscience state.

(December 24, 2017 at 11:06 am)Tizheruk Wrote:

(December 24, 2017 at 10:59 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: Bacteria aren’t ever going to gestate into people.

True but not relevant . If our criteria is a current conscience state.

Are we ok to kill humans that are currently unconscious in a coma but that we know for a fact will gain consciousness in a few months? Bad argument.

(December 24, 2017 at 10:59 am)LadyForCamus Wrote:

(December 24, 2017 at 10:37 am)Tizheruk Wrote: This is not proof of conscience only the capacity to respond to stimuli . By that logic bacteria are conscience .

Bacteria aren’t ever going to gestate into people.

The only debate to be had cannot be based on any religion. It has to be base on neutral data as far as what doctors say, and how economics effect the family involved. But to only go after doctors, and call it murder is bullshit, because they would be heartless to claim a underage girl, or rape victim should be put in prison or death row like a serial killer. What they will NOT ever get, is a utopia where abortions never happen at all. You ban them, and more females would die because they are not provided safe options. This is the same bullshit religious crap prohibition and keeping pot illegal is based on. PURITAN crap.

I simply get sick of the bullshit accusation that choice is evil or because we value it staying between the doctor and female, that somehow we lack compassion. Our right wing Christians are hypocrites rightfully pointing out the holy book based nuttiness out of the middle east, but yet they want their own Christian theocracy here.

(December 24, 2017 at 9:50 am)FFaith Wrote: Do you think you would still be against abortion if you didn't believe in the soul though? Without the soul, life is not automatically sacred. There are no memories or life experience for the fetus, so the way we look at it, the fetus or "baby" has nothing to lose, really. There's no good reason you should expect us to care about this "baby" losing it's life, because we don't believe a soul is present to make the life sacred.

So then it is just the memories and life experiences that make murder wrong, later down the line?

(December 24, 2017 at 11:07 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(December 24, 2017 at 11:06 am)Tizheruk Wrote: True but not relevant . If our criteria is a current conscience state.

Are we ok to kill humans that are currently unconscious in a coma but that we know for a fact will gain consciousness in a few months? Bad argument.

Nope their is a difference between someone who's conscience is stunted or damaged and a conscience that has not yet developed and thus does not exist . So bad counter. And what it will become (assuming it survives ) is also not relevant .

I think the best response to this is something in the middle of pro-life and pro-choice, maybe you guys could get to mutual ground. For those who are pro-life , have more trust in the human species , seriously , in reality , it is not like people fuck and havr abortions in a spree , so that they could get the trill of it .

I see no logical reason why taking the life of a human who is temporarily unconscious is only wrong if they were previously conscious.