(December 27, 2017 at 12:32 am)bennyboy Wrote:

(December 26, 2017 at 8:40 pm)Whateverist Wrote: Finally got to see it today during a matinee.  Not all that crowded.

I was surprised that my wife liked it.  While it was probably better than most of the others, I think my enthusiasm for it is finally waning.  There was one line, not sure who said it, to the effect that "no one ever dies".  At that moment I felt cheapened for having worked so hard to find meaning in the series.  

But then I remember early on hearing that Flash Gordon had been one of Lucas' inspirations for the movies.  So then, yeah, good enough.  I did like the Ren character but I don't know what to make of Kylo.

I'll watch episode 9 but I may not invest further in the spinoffs.

Kylo Ren is the best character in Star Wars, ever.  I love that pure insidious evil.

Dude really has daddy issues. 

(December 21, 2017 at 10:00 am)Aroura Wrote: Same here. I read a really great article that covers it, here:

https://www.avclub.com/this-is-not-going...1821472840

Basically, the movie is about letting go of the past, that there are no happy endings. Every "win" is temporary, even hero can make massive mistakes, and how despite all this depressing BS, never give up hope, accept mistakes and learn from your failures. It's a devdevisive message, and sort of ironically, the people who can't follow the message of the movie regarding the movie itself are often the same ones who dont like it. And frankly thats pretty meta, and interesting!

It's a grim, adult, gritty message, and some people are really struggling to see their childhood hero as a flawed person.

Personally, I can't imagine a more fitting and beautiful story arc with an incredible conclusion for Luke. I found it deeply moving.

Good article.  Definitely a better, more decisive story arc for Luke than Leia can hope for now.

Wow, that movie sucked. Afterward I checked rotten tomatoes and it's in the 90s for critics but 50s for audiences, which usually means the movie sucks, and this is no exception. Gaping plot holes abound, and the characters are pretty much meh.

(December 27, 2017 at 12:31 pm)alpha male Wrote: Wow, that movie sucked. Afterward I checked rotten tomatoes and it's in the 90s for critics but 50s for audiences, which usually means the movie sucks, and this is no exception. Gaping plot holes abound, and the characters are pretty much meh.

The worst moment in the film for me is when someone says "no one ever truly dies".  I'm sure we can agree on that much.

(December 21, 2017 at 10:00 am)Aroura Wrote: Same here. I read a really great article that covers it, here:

https://www.avclub.com/this-is-not-going...1821472840

Basically, the movie is about letting go of the past, that there are no happy endings. Every "win" is temporary, even hero can make massive mistakes, and how despite all this depressing BS, never give up hope, accept mistakes and learn from your failures. It's a devdevisive message, and sort of ironically, the people who can't follow the message of the movie regarding the movie itself are often the same ones who dont like it. And frankly thats pretty meta, and interesting!

It's a grim, adult, gritty message, and some people are really struggling to see their childhood hero as a flawed person.

Personally, I can't imagine a more fitting and beautiful story arc with an incredible conclusion for Luke. I found it deeply moving.

Nailed it. 

(December 27, 2017 at 12:03 pm)Whateverist Wrote:

(December 21, 2017 at 10:00 am)Aroura Wrote: Same here. I read a really great article that covers it, here:

https://www.avclub.com/this-is-not-going...1821472840

Basically, the movie is about letting go of the past, that there are no happy endings. Every "win" is temporary, even hero can make massive mistakes, and how despite all this depressing BS, never give up hope, accept mistakes and learn from your failures. It's a devdevisive message, and sort of ironically, the people who can't follow the message of the movie regarding the movie itself are often the same ones who dont like it. And frankly thats pretty meta, and interesting!

It's a grim, adult, gritty message, and some people are really struggling to see their childhood hero as a flawed person.

Personally, I can't imagine a more fitting and beautiful story arc with an incredible conclusion for Luke. I found it deeply moving.

Good article.  Definitely a better, more decisive story arc for Luke than Leia can hope for now.

I'm glad you finally got to see it!

---

As for others mentioning plot holes, I just gotta lol.
A New Hope had the largest, worst, most made fun of plot hole of all time.  How did the Galactic Empire build a Death Star with such a massive flaw that a single person could blow the whole thing up?  It's was joked about for decades, so much so that Disney actually made a whole movie JUST to explain that giant plot hole away!  And a good job on that, too, btw.

I love a New Hope, so I 'm not picking on it.  I'm just saying plot holes does not = terrible movie (though it can).

Other Lucas created gaping plot holes that fans pretty much ignore:

*Midi-fucking-cloreans.
*Obi-wan doesn't remember ever owning a droid, really?

*They decided to hide Luke on Vaders mothers family farm, and let him keep the name Skywalker?  Come on....

*AND Obi wan picked the under cover name of "Old Ben" but kept the Kenobi.  /facepalm

*When they tow the Millenium Falcon on board in Ep IV they don't search it, they just see that the logs say the crew abandoned ship.  This surpasses even Stormtrooper aim levels of stupid that no military operation would ever commit. 

*In Ep VI, the second death star is protected by a single radar tower that was much easier to reach than all that other shit they went through, and the rebels knew about it...but they went for the harder route because we needed to see Ewoks, I guess?

*Why is the Death Star chalk full of Ground Troops but had only a handful of Tie Fighters to defend it???  It was in space, not on a planet....  

*Luke has about 1 hour of training and a chat with Obi-Wan on the Falcon before being able to use the force to blow up the whole Death Star.  I'm not saying Gary Stew, but....

*Oh and in Ep IV, R2 and C3PO take an escape pod, and the command center decides not to blow it up because it had no life forms.  Despite the fact they were looking to prevent transmission of stolen data, not a living person. And it's not like they were low on bullets or something. Again, the great Galactic Empire proves to be flat out stupid.

*Why didn't Qui-Gon try and find the part he needed elsewhere?  They were in a port with TONS of other junk dealers.  Instead he just gives up after failing to mind trick Watto or whatever that flying things name was.  Just so we can see that pod race.

*Boba Fett literally dies like a Hanna Barbara cartoon character, and everyone loves Boba, so I don't want to hear shit about lame deaths in the new franchise.

*How long was Luke training with Yoda in the swamp?  'Cause it takes Han and Leia 1 day to have their adventures and then Luke senses they need him in Cloud City. The timeline makes no sense.  Did Luke get trained in a day or two, or did it take a month to travel to cloud city for some reason?


I could go on.  My point is the OT and the prequels have plenty of massive plot holes, screwed up timelines, and characters doing things that make 0 sense.  These things alone are not enough to wreck those movies, so why would anyone nitpick the new movies?

Unless you had already made up your mind about liking it or not before you entered the theater, or you are being dishonest about why you don't like it.  Maybe?

---

BTW, the movie has issues, I'm not saying it doesn't, but "it has plot holes" is not much of a critique, In and of itself.

There are a lot of people right now getting their opinions from the internet. Personally, I went in unspoiled, and came back and wrote my review here, which I think was very detailed, before looking at any other reviews or comments so I knew it would be unaffected by the great social media machine.

(December 28, 2017 at 5:29 pm)Aroura Wrote:

(December 27, 2017 at 12:03 pm)Whateverist Wrote: Good article.  Definitely a better, more decisive story arc for Luke than Leia can hope for now.

I'm glad you finally got to see it!

---

As for others mentioning plot holes, I just gotta lol.
A New Hope had the largest, worst, most made fun of plot hole of all time.  How did the Galactic Empire build a Death Star with such a massive flaw that a single person could blow the whole thing up?  It's was joked about for decades, so much so that Disney actually made a whole movie JUST to explain that giant plot hole away!  And a good job on that, too, btw.

I love a New Hope, so I 'm not picking on it.  I'm just saying plot holes does not = terrible movie (though it can).

Other Lucas created gaping plot holes that fans pretty much ignore:

*Midi-fucking-cloreans.
*Obi-wan doesn't remember ever owning a droid, really?

*They decided to hide Luke on Vaders mothers family farm, and let him keep the name Skywalker?  Come on....

*AND Obi wan picked the under cover name of "Old Ben" but kept the Kenobi.  /facepalm

*When they tow the Millenium Falcon on board in Ep IV they don't search it, they just see that the logs say the crew abandoned ship.  This surpasses even Stormtrooper aim levels of stupid that no military operation would ever commit. 

*In Ep VI, the second death star is protected by a single radar tower that was much easier to reach than all that other shit they went through, and the rebels knew about it...but they went for the harder route because we needed to see Ewoks, I guess?

*Why is the Death Star chalk full of Ground Troops but had only a handful of Tie Fighters to defend it???  It was in space, not on a planet....  

*Luke has about 1 hour of training and a chat with Obi-Wan on the Falcon before being able to use the force to blow up the whole Death Star.  I'm not saying Gary Stew, but....

*Oh and in Ep IV, R2 and C3PO take an escape pod, and the command center decides not to blow it up because it had no life forms.  Despite the fact they were looking to prevent transmission of stolen data, not a living person. And it's not like they were low on bullets or something. Again, the great Galactic Empire proves to be flat out stupid.

*Why didn't Qui-Gon try and find the part he needed elsewhere?  They were in a port with TONS of other junk dealers.  Instead he just gives up after failing to mind trick Watto or whatever that flying things name was.  Just so we can see that pod race.

*Boba Fett literally dies like a Hanna Barbara cartoon character, and everyone loves Boba, so I don't want to hear shit about lame deaths in the new franchise.

*How long was Luke training with Yoda in the swamp?  'Cause it takes Han and Leia 1 day to have their adventures and then Luke senses they need him in Cloud City. The timeline makes no sense.  Did Luke get trained in a day or two, or did it take a month to travel to cloud city for some reason?


I could go on.  My point is the OT and the prequels have plenty of massive plot holes, screwed up timelines, and characters doing things that make 0 sense.  These things alone are not enough to wreck those movies, so why would anyone nitpick the new movies?

Unless you had already made up your mind about liking it or not before you entered the theater, or you are being dishonest about why you don't like it.  Maybe?

---

BTW, the movie has issues, I'm not saying it doesn't, but "it has plot holes" is not much of a critique, In and of itself.

There are a lot of people right now getting their opinions from the internet.  Personally, I went in unspoiled, and came back and wrote my review here, which I think was very detailed, before looking at any other reviews or comments so I knew it would be unaffected by the great social media machine.

Hey Aurora.  I don't know if it is a plot hole or just an unexplained plot twist at this point, but I am curious as heck how Kylo and Rey have been communicating.  I've googled it to see what others make of it but have found nothing.  Any ideas?

The big turn off in the movie for me was that "no one ever truly dies" line, and I can't remember who said it.  It just made me feel like the whole story was basically a kind of xtian alt sort of story, and I resented getting sucked in if that is what it boils down to.  

But I sure do like the Rey character.  Not sure why anyone likes Kylo, to me he is just disturbed and immature.  If we had to have an idiot become the chief sith lord, we could be much worse off.  (Of course, I remember thinking similar thoughts about the clown we have as president and that turns out to be quite bad enough.)

(December 28, 2017 at 7:06 pm)Whateverist Wrote:

(December 28, 2017 at 5:29 pm)Aroura Wrote: I'm glad you finally got to see it!

---

As for others mentioning plot holes, I just gotta lol.
A New Hope had the largest, worst, most made fun of plot hole of all time.  How did the Galactic Empire build a Death Star with such a massive flaw that a single person could blow the whole thing up?  It's was joked about for decades, so much so that Disney actually made a whole movie JUST to explain that giant plot hole away!  And a good job on that, too, btw.

I love a New Hope, so I 'm not picking on it.  I'm just saying plot holes does not = terrible movie (though it can).

Other Lucas created gaping plot holes that fans pretty much ignore:

*Midi-fucking-cloreans.
*Obi-wan doesn't remember ever owning a droid, really?

*They decided to hide Luke on Vaders mothers family farm, and let him keep the name Skywalker?  Come on....

*AND Obi wan picked the under cover name of "Old Ben" but kept the Kenobi.  /facepalm

*When they tow the Millenium Falcon on board in Ep IV they don't search it, they just see that the logs say the crew abandoned ship.  This surpasses even Stormtrooper aim levels of stupid that no military operation would ever commit. 

*In Ep VI, the second death star is protected by a single radar tower that was much easier to reach than all that other shit they went through, and the rebels knew about it...but they went for the harder route because we needed to see Ewoks, I guess?

*Why is the Death Star chalk full of Ground Troops but had only a handful of Tie Fighters to defend it???  It was in space, not on a planet....  

*Luke has about 1 hour of training and a chat with Obi-Wan on the Falcon before being able to use the force to blow up the whole Death Star.  I'm not saying Gary Stew, but....

*Oh and in Ep IV, R2 and C3PO take an escape pod, and the command center decides not to blow it up because it had no life forms.  Despite the fact they were looking to prevent transmission of stolen data, not a living person. And it's not like they were low on bullets or something. Again, the great Galactic Empire proves to be flat out stupid.

*Why didn't Qui-Gon try and find the part he needed elsewhere?  They were in a port with TONS of other junk dealers.  Instead he just gives up after failing to mind trick Watto or whatever that flying things name was.  Just so we can see that pod race.

*Boba Fett literally dies like a Hanna Barbara cartoon character, and everyone loves Boba, so I don't want to hear shit about lame deaths in the new franchise.

*How long was Luke training with Yoda in the swamp?  'Cause it takes Han and Leia 1 day to have their adventures and then Luke senses they need him in Cloud City. The timeline makes no sense.  Did Luke get trained in a day or two, or did it take a month to travel to cloud city for some reason?


I could go on.  My point is the OT and the prequels have plenty of massive plot holes, screwed up timelines, and characters doing things that make 0 sense.  These things alone are not enough to wreck those movies, so why would anyone nitpick the new movies?

Unless you had already made up your mind about liking it or not before you entered the theater, or you are being dishonest about why you don't like it.  Maybe?

---

BTW, the movie has issues, I'm not saying it doesn't, but "it has plot holes" is not much of a critique, In and of itself.

There are a lot of people right now getting their opinions from the internet.  Personally, I went in unspoiled, and came back and wrote my review here, which I think was very detailed, before looking at any other reviews or comments so I knew it would be unaffected by the great social media machine.

Hey Aurora.  I don't know if it is a plot hole or just an unexplained plot twist at this point, but I am curious as heck how Kylo and Rey have been communicating.  I've googled it to see what others make of it but have found nothing.  Any ideas?

The big turn off in the movie for me was that "no one ever truly dies" line, and I can't remember who said it.  It just made me feel like the whole story was basically a kind of xtian alt sort of story, and I resented getting sucked in if that is what it boils down to.  

But I sure do like the Rey character.  Not sure why anyone likes Kylo, to me he is just disturbed and immature.  If we had to have an idiot become the chief sith lord, we could be much worse off.  (Of course, I remember thinking similar thoughts about the clown we have as president and that turns out to be quite bad enough.)

Hi Whatevs,
I thought Snoke said he had linked them, because he knew Kylo would be unable to control his emotions in front of Rey, and that Rey would be drawn in by him.  That being said, I personally wonder if Snoke lied, since after his death, they are still linked.  Or maybe once linked they just don't know how to turn it off?  Personally, I found their link the best part of the movie.  That and Luke's stuff.

I don't recall who said the line you are referring to either, but I think it was either Luke or Yoda. I thought it was Luke, to Leia, right before he goes to battle Kylo?  Anyway, I also thought the line was "no one's ever really gone" or something like that, I'm 100% sure they didn't say anything about death specifically.  When I heard the line, I assumed he was talking about memory, because I thought it was at that point he gave her Han's dice.  Like saying, if we remember those we love, they never really leave us, even when they die.  I also thought it was a set up for Kylo's (still possible) redemption arc.  In other words, just like Luke never gave up on Vader, Leia should never give up on her son, because she kept saying her son was gone.  I did not at any time think he was referring to no one ever truly dying.  

But that's just my take on what I heard, I can see where others might interpret it differently.  I know that the Force is more Eastern than Western as far as the religious influences go, and I'd hope they keep it that way.

I love Rey, too, though the rock scene at the end with her was kinda dumb. She is still my fav new character. I enjoy Kylo because he is immature and moody and unpredictable.  His whole family has a history of being immature brats, don't they?  I guess we are waiting to see if his story arc can move him to either serious villain, or mature adult who is redeemed.  At any rate, his character clearly has a lot of room for growth.

Is anyone else concerned that the entire rebellion could now all take the same taxi home.

(December 29, 2017 at 11:29 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: Is anyone else concerned that the entire rebellion could now all take the same taxi home.

Let’s hope the taxi gets run over by a pickup.