(January 26, 2018 at 4:55 pm)Crossless2.0 Wrote:

(January 26, 2018 at 4:52 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Humans are weak by nature.
They face a powerful deceiver a dark enemy and a former Angel.


The only solution is to rely on reliable means to God, and that has to be proven from God to be the means. But how to be proven, but through the means that God has chosen.

As long as people search others for proofs that the divine proof God appointed for humanity is chosen to provide and the guidance of that proof is guidance from God, we will only further ourselves from reality and the path.

What the actual fuck are you jabbering about?

The path the leader, the door of light that is ever there with you calling you to path and calling you to believe in your Lord, which is love, love truly assess what is to be truly valued the most, and what is the path but love?

And so place your love in those who are the beautiful names of God and they will guide to him, the source.

How is it that islam made you forget how to communicate in english?  All your weird beliefs aside, that's something I've been wondering.

(January 26, 2018 at 4:58 pm)Khemikal Wrote: How is it that islam made you forget how to communicate in english?  All your weird beliefs aside, that's something I've been wondering.

Knot on Moses is because he was their Leader, so he couldn't speak the truth, lest they turn on him.

I am no leader, I get to speak without fear.  I lead no one. I don't care if I am deemed a fool.

I won't lose anyone because I have no followers, and no one takes my words as authority that I have to worry about how they can be misinterpreted by the masses.

And God get angry at Moses when he talked about Mohammad who was the one who God will send, and said "You have Aaron", meaning, yes you have a knot on your tongue, but your despair at people understanding should not go past your successor Aaron, for,  I have appointed you and brought you of the river of life to humanity to guide them, and so guide them to your brother Aaron who after you will make people understand your words and I will help Aaron and his family, which is your family as well, with the exalted leadership and my covenant regarding them and his offspring is like that of Abraham and his chosen offspring, and I sent you so that you and your family can be a guidance to humanity, that your successors who follow you guide humanity, and prepare the way for Mohammad. 

And his Anger was, what will you despair of darkness and veils with little wisdom on humans, till the one I will send to them all (Mohammad) and lay the burden all on him. Rather you and the children of my championed fighter (Israel) are to prepare people for the one who I will send.

And it' sad Mohammad had a similar knot and people were NOT prepared, and that the family of Mohammad and Ali faced the same onslaught the family of Moses and Aaron faced.

(January 26, 2018 at 3:44 pm)Aoi Magi Wrote:

(January 26, 2018 at 12:11 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I would argue that a person still chooses to follow that religion "by their own volition". Contrary to what appears to be popular belief around here, us theists aren't mindless drones. If Christianity all of the sudden states that rape is good and that Jesus commands us to rape people in order to multiply, I would no longer be a Christian. But it doesn't. It states the opposite.

Good people can fall under a bad influence for any reason, bad religion only being one of them. And as i keep saying, it works the other way around too. A bad person can be influenced to do good because of good religion, or because of any other positive influene.

An annoying inconsistency I keep seeing here is the quickness to blame a person's religion for every bad act they commit. But when a religious person is influenced by their religion to do good , such as all the religious charities and church fundraisers for the needy, all of the sudden the argument becomes "Oh, well, their religion has nothing to do with them doing these good things." I've seen it multiple times. (Though I suppose I've also seen "They're only doing good things so they can win points for Heaven, that's it." Either way it's pretry unfair and extremely inconsistent)

No most people are brought into religion much before they can "choose". Let me ask you this, why do you choose to be a "catholic" instead of a "vaishnab"(a sect of vishnu worshippers in hinduism) or a sikh?

Yes, in this society rape is considered bad and our laws about it are not perfect, but how the old testament deals with rape is morally much worse. I mean do you think it is good to force someone to marry their rapist? Yes these days people can ignore these in the name of new testament because our society has evolved, but in the past people didn't just stop being christians due to these bad parts of christianity, rather they embraced it. Would you say every christian who believed the old testament was a bad person? Or was christianity a bad religion if not for the new testament?

I was raised Catholic, but it is my choice that I follow it. I'm not some mindless robot. Catholic teaching both on faith and on morals makes logical sense to me. If tomorrow the Church claimed God wants us to steal and rape (which it doesn't, despite whatever literal interpretation you're pulling from the OT), I'd realize that it wasn't what I thought it was, and I'd leave. From everyone I know, I can't imagine a single one of them being like "Oh, the Church says rape is good now? Ok then, imma go out and find me some person to rape." We are not idiots.

You're still not really addressing my initial point, which is that religion can be either a negative OR positive influence depending on what the ideologies are, and it is dishonest and inconsistent to only claim it does the former.

I said this before, false religions are almost all answers with mostly right answers with some answers wrong. We aren't going to be punished if we didn't find the right religion if it has not been proven and presented to us and we did our best to find the truth.

Given I don't believe any of the holy books are properly taught today, I don't blame people for not finding the true religion. The translations of Quran are really bad and the commentaries on Quran are blinding.

It may have occurred to some of you who have been unlucky enough to be informed of such atrocities that there are global patterns and commonalities which identify who and what is behind these crimes.
It doesn't matter where they occur, or under what persuasion, they have common methods of training and torture.
The agenda and organisation that perpetrates these horrific sins, can be more fully understood. It is quite comprehensive, and there is not a shortage of people who are exposing this organisation, however, there are just as many whose purpose is to confuse and undermine the truth, through half truths, exaggerations and lies.

Therefor I recommend that before you do any research that you get a clear picture of the world as it has been over the last 1900 years.
The dreaded and most hated book of this evil organisation is "The Great Controversy" By E.G.White. Free to read online, but be certain to read the earlier unchanged copy, pre 1911 publication. The corrupt leaders of the SDA church are of the same organisation, or controlled by the same, and have aimed to obliterate this book, especially the vital chapters.

If you prefer to watch a video, not on the book but the same topics, see the link below for a complete series.
https://amazingdiscoveries.tv/c/1/Total_Onslaught/

(January 26, 2018 at 6:56 pm)Banned Wrote: https://amazingdiscoveries.tv/c/1/Total_Onslaught/

A Series Of Unlikely Explanations

(January 26, 2018 at 5:25 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I was raised Catholic, but it is my choice that I follow it. I'm not some mindless robot. Catholic teaching both on faith and on morals makes logical sense to me. If tomorrow the Church claimed God wants us to steal and rape (which it doesn't, despite whatever literal interpretation you're pulling from the OT), I'd realize that it wasn't what I thought it was, and I'd leave. From everyone I know, I can't imagine a single one of them being like "Oh, the Church says rape is good now? Ok then, imma go out and find me some person to rape." We are not idiots.

You're still not really addressing my initial point, which is that religion can be either a negative OR positive influence depending on what the ideologies are, and it is dishonest and inconsistent to only claim it does the former.

Bad things aren't limited to just "rape" and "steal" or such very apparent evils, nor do we humans change at the flick of a switch, what you are arguing against is just your own strawman.

Also you keep missing my point, yes religion can foster both good and bad ideals/behaviors, but it is not entirely dependent on the ideology of the religion itself rather on the subjective interpretation of the authority figure, and this is especially dangerous because religion teaches people to be submissive to authority figures.

Let's take your case for oh-so-generous-religious-charities, charities are good things, but when done by religious institutions, in most instances the goal is more about spreading the religion instead of helping people, like forcing people to listen to sermons or adhere to a particular faith before receiving these benefits. The good people who actually donate to charities do intend to help people, but are unwittingly becoming a part of this agenda. do you think that is a good thing?

(January 26, 2018 at 11:15 am)Cyberman Wrote:

(January 26, 2018 at 2:19 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: Books can be recited, read and re-written in the culture. Transferred to you through culture.

Thank you for recognising that the book that stops you from committing atrocities could have been subject to revision in the past and can be in the future.

I repeat, I don't need any book, or indeed any kind of external authority, to make be a decent human being. Why do you think you do?

Good deeds come first; then belief that sharpens them and make them stronger.
There is this verse from the Quran:

Quote:Sura 90, The Quran:

( 11 )   But he has not broken through the difficult pass.
( 12 )   And what can make you know what is [breaking through] the difficult pass?
( 13 )   It is the freeing of a slave
( 14 )   Or feeding on a day of severe hunger
( 15 )   An orphan of near relationship
( 16 )   Or a needy person in misery
( 17 )   And then being among those who believed and advised one another to patience and advised one another to compassion.

The verses gave a formula for believing: first you free slaves and give the poor; and after that you believe.
In other words; those acts will make belief more...tolerable?

So you have a point.

https://atheistforums.org/thread-51114-p...pid1624773

Quote:AtlasS33 said:
All I can say, is that being nice, being good, having a heart in general opens the road to belief

Good comes first. Believe sharpens the goodness; decorating it more and more.

Being good does not need decoration.