(February 19, 2018 at 8:03 pm)Whateverist Wrote:

(February 19, 2018 at 6:47 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: [b]
According to who?

But Huggs, isn't that what you believe too? Unless you think God is a kind of life, i.e., biologically based being.

Nope, if God is light, that makes him energy, which makes life energy, which means that life has always existed. Does not the Bible state that before the world was even made the the sons of God shouted for joy?

(February 19, 2018 at 8:11 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(February 19, 2018 at 8:03 pm)Whateverist Wrote: But Huggs, isn't that what you believe too?  Unless you think God is a kind of life, i.e., biologically based being.

Nope, if God is light, that makes him energy, which makes life energy, which means that life has always existed. Does not the Bible state that before the world was even made the the sons of God shouted for joy?

Well yeah, but according to genesis God first created trees and other plants and then some time later decided light would be good and created the sun.  So why pay attention to what the bible says?  Why not Shakespeare or Twain?

(February 19, 2018 at 8:03 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(February 19, 2018 at 7:51 pm)Grandizer Wrote: No it doesnt. We can know something to be a fact even if we dont know all the details pertinent to it. There is nothing extraordinary about what Im saying here anyway. Its only extraordinary if life is some magical entity that ia supposed to have been formed magically out if nothing.

*Emphasis mine*

That's the definition of faith... not reality.

No faith here ... empirically, we have sufficient evidence that life arose from nonlife (and sound logic as well). But as far as the science goes, scientists dont know all the relevant details. Its a similar thjng with lightning. We know lightning doesnt come from Zeus, yet scientists are still trying to figure out how exactly it works.

(February 19, 2018 at 6:47 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: If something is real, it is fact. Abiogenesis is not fact therefor it is not real.

God is not real. Therefore, god is not a fact, god is fiction. 

(February 19, 2018 at 8:19 pm)Joods Wrote:

(February 19, 2018 at 6:47 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: If something is real, it is fact. Abiogenesis is not fact therefor it is not real.

God is not real. Therefore, god is not a fact, god is fiction. 

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/thread

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and so is any other argument for god you try to make.

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Hence why it's referred to as having faith in God, you need to get your boi Grandizer on board.

(February 19, 2018 at 8:31 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(February 19, 2018 at 8:19 pm)Joods Wrote: God is not real. Therefore, god is not a fact, god is fiction. 

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/thread

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and so is any other argument for god you try to make.

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Hence why it's referred to as having faith in God, you need to get your boi Grandizer on board.

With God its faith of course ... thats because we lack evidence for the existence of God in an objective sense, and sufficient evidence that your God is manmade.

(February 19, 2018 at 8:15 pm)Whateverist Wrote:

(February 19, 2018 at 8:11 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Nope, if God is light, that makes him energy, which makes life energy, which means that life has always existed. Does not the Bible state that before the world was even made the the sons of God shouted for joy?

Well yeah, but according to genesis God first created trees and other plants and then some time later decided light would be good and created the sun.  So why pay attention to what the bible says?  Why not Shakespeare or Twain?

Since God IS light, his light is sufficient.


And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. - Revelation 22:5

Just remember ... life is not equivalent to intelligence or consciousness. Bacteria, AFAIK, lack intelligence or consciousness in any meaningful sense of the word. Yet, they are nevertheless considered alive. Now think about even simpler organisms than bacteria, and consider how naturally easy it could have been for such rudimentary life to have gradually emerged from nonlife. Its not quantum mechanics anymore when you think of it this way, lol. It was a natural process like any other, and we have the chemical make up to show for it.

(February 19, 2018 at 6:36 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: If life is just chemistry, why can't we just chemically keep someone alive indefinitely? My cell phone can be powered indefinitely through chemistry, the human body... not so much.

Not a good analogy.  Your cell phone requires battery charges, and as well the batteries themselves degrade over time and have to be replaced.  In addition, if the network environment changes (for instance, an incompatible network standard is established or your carrier goes bankrupt), your phone will effectively be dead.

The human body is a collection of connected biochemical systems, each with their own flaws and maintenance issues, and although medical science continues to advance, there are still many life-threatening conditions that cannot be prevented or cured.

There is also apoptosis (a genetically-based phenomenon responsible for cell death, but which is also a critical part of developmental and immune processes).  Getting rid of apoptosis is a very, very bad idea; for one thing, it would make it even easier for cancers to gain the upper hand.

The chemical compounds that make up the human body are just one part of the picture. Like introducing non-native wildlife to an area with no natural predators, attempting to chemically bypass the body's systems to achieve immortality could have devastating consequences.

Perhaps you should rethink the "just" in "just chemistry."  Things aren't that simple.

(February 19, 2018 at 9:03 pm)Grandizer Wrote: Just remember ... life is not equivalent to intelligence or consciousness. Bacteria, AFAIK, lack intelligence or consciousness in any meaningful sense of the word. Yet, they are nevertheless considered alive. Now think about even simpler organisms than bacteria, and consider how naturally easy it could have been for such rudimentary life to have gradually emerged from nonlife. Its not quantum mechanics anymore when you think of it this way, lol. It was a natural process like any other, and we have the chemical make up to show for it.

*my bolded*

You're probably going to have to break that down for him.