(March 7, 2018 at 12:11 pm)drfuzzy Wrote:

(March 7, 2018 at 2:03 am)Godscreated Wrote: Being raised in any denomination and/or being associated with them doesn't mean you know what Christianity is, if you did as an atheist you wouldn't be playing in any church. Your the one doing it wrong and falsely accusing all those churches of condemning the others of false whatever. You being bigoted toward Christianity means what you have to say about it is worthless.
I do not have the burden of proof on me because God has never told anyone to prove His existence, that He says is His work. Your comic illustration is nothing more than comical, even on the childish side.  Then why do you play an organ in the church seems you are the hypocrite of hypocrites.

GC

In 1979, in music college, a professor told us "Never, under any circumstances, take a church job.  BUT! We're musicians, and we have to eat.  So most of you will."  (-- I should have changed majors right there. ) There are atheist church musician support groups - I'm a member of one.  It's impossible to guess how many of us there are, obviously, since in order to keep our weekend jobs we can't be "out".  (There are a lot of gay church musicians too.)  In the Bible Belt, the best guess is 20% of church musicians.  Some of my friends in Boston and LA are sure that the number of atheist church musicians is more than 50%.

Anyone who claims to have a personal relationship with an entity that cannot be seen, heard, or felt, and needs a human being to tell other human beings what its wants and needs are . . . oh yeah, the burden of proof is on the person making the claim.  And, of course, that's a basic tenet of logic and debate.  You have been told this dozens of times on this forum, but you stubbornly dispute it, because you cannot prove your pet deity exists.

Your system of 'proof' work no other way/make no logical sense other than being an obstical for God to over come and then/thereby be subjegated to 'science' thus proving He is not God.

Think about it in what trial is not eye witness testimony invalid? in what court is the eye witness testimony by billions thrown out and laught at?

Then a demand made that in order to prove an all powerful God subjugate Himself to the confines and limitation/predictable reactions to prodding and testing of small minded 'science' would thus disqualify him as being all powerful since He has made the declaration that He will hide himself from those who seek to discover God on those terms.

Proof is not for any of to give. All any of us can do it tell you where and how to find it. GOD Himself provides the proof. Once you find that/once you know what it is you are looking for, nothing for you can deny who/what God is.

The only obstacle here is your shitty fucking spelling.  Did you get out of second grade?

(January 30, 2018 at 8:09 am)Succubus Wrote: Overall, an excellent post Whateverist but I'm rather confused as to why you give them so much leeway, as in:

Quote:As with souls and an afterlife, any beliefs regarding the nature of God which doesn't contradict life as we know it, would be reasonable and insistence that any particular point of view should be accepted by all would be unreasonable - or else justified in a manner which doesn't claim an unearned authority.

Everything we know about 'life as we know it' tells us that souls and the afterlife are unfalsifiable propositions and as such should be dismissed without a second thought. There is nothing reasonable about belief in the soul, it was ridiculous nonsense two thousand years ago and it's ridiculous nonsense now. In effect you are giving them unlimited discretionary powers to believe anything, everything  and nothing, don't they do this anyway?
Just look at some recent propositions by 'liberal Christian thinkers' on the subject of atheists and hell. They use so much 'spin' in their attempts to redefine God into existence that the G-forces involved have rendered what remains of actual church teachings and dogma into shrapnel.

All that remains is a nice warm feeling, ie, standard issue cafeteria Christians who are utterly incapable of describing what it is they actually believe. I have more respect for the fire and brimstone fundies, at least they actually believe something.

Hey there, Succubus :  If that's your real name

When I say that I believe in God    it simply means that I believe that he can perform miracles for his entire family. He is able to hear me as he can hear you, but our God wouldn't ruin his relationship with you by scaring you away, because he is the creator of all things. 

One thing that humans have in common with our God the Father is that he made us in his image

 All the contributes that God has is no one else who has, but our Lord Jesus, his begotten son.

(March 7, 2018 at 1:43 pm)Drich Wrote: Proof is not for any of to give. All any of us can do it tell you where and how to find it. GOD Himself provides the proof. Once you find that/once you know what it is you are looking for, nothing for you can deny who/what God is.

Sounds like the ideal setup for becoming a victim of confirmation bias. Probably because it is.

(March 7, 2018 at 1:59 pm)Imabeliever Wrote:

(January 30, 2018 at 8:09 am)Succubus Wrote: Overall, an excellent post Whateverist but I'm rather confused as to why you give them so much leeway, as in:


Everything we know about 'life as we know it' tells us that souls and the afterlife are unfalsifiable propositions and as such should be dismissed without a second thought. There is nothing reasonable about belief in the soul, it was ridiculous nonsense two thousand years ago and it's ridiculous nonsense now. In effect you are giving them unlimited discretionary powers to believe anything, everything  and nothing, don't they do this anyway?
Just look at some recent propositions by 'liberal Christian thinkers' on the subject of atheists and hell. They use so much 'spin' in their attempts to redefine God into existence that the G-forces involved have rendered what remains of actual church teachings and dogma into shrapnel.

All that remains is a nice warm feeling, ie, standard issue cafeteria Christians who are utterly incapable of describing what it is they actually believe. I have more respect for the fire and brimstone fundies, at least they actually believe something.

Hey there, Succubus :  If that's your real name

When I say that I believe in God    it simply means that I believe that he can perform miracles for his entire family. He is able to hear me as he can hear you, but our God wouldn't ruin his relationship with you by scaring you away, because he is the creator of all things. 

One thing that humans have in common with our God the Father is that he made us in his image

 All the contributes that God has is no one else who has, but our Lord Jesus, his begotten son.

I smell POE here.

(March 7, 2018 at 1:59 pm)Imabeliever Wrote: Hey there, Succubus :  If that's your real name

When I say that I believe in God    it simply means that I believe that he can perform miracles for his entire family.

Sorry but, can perform miracles, or does perform miracles? To date no miracle has ever been demonstrated. Lots of claims yes but confirmation of such claims, no.

Quote:He is able to hear me as he can hear you, but our God wouldn't ruin his relationship with you by scaring you away, because he is the creator of all things.

 
Rrrright, ok, but his tactics appear to have failed him insomuch that I don't believe he exists. This all knowing all powerful God has singularly failed to instil a belief in me, now how can that be?

Quote:One thing that humans have in common with our God the Father is that he made us in his image

What, God looks like this!!

Quote: All the contributes that God has is no one else who has, but our Lord Jesus, his begotten son.

I've no idea what you're trying to say, do you mean attributes? If so I still have no idea what you're trying to say.

(March 7, 2018 at 1:43 pm)Drich Wrote:

(March 7, 2018 at 12:11 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: In 1979, in music college, a professor told us "Never, under any circumstances, take a church job.  BUT! We're musicians, and we have to eat.  So most of you will."  (-- I should have changed majors right there. ) There are atheist church musician support groups - I'm a member of one.  It's impossible to guess how many of us there are, obviously, since in order to keep our weekend jobs we can't be "out".  (There are a lot of gay church musicians too.)  In the Bible Belt, the best guess is 20% of church musicians.  Some of my friends in Boston and LA are sure that the number of atheist church musicians is more than 50%.

Anyone who claims to have a personal relationship with an entity that cannot be seen, heard, or felt, and needs a human being to tell other human beings what its wants and needs are . . . oh yeah, the burden of proof is on the person making the claim.  And, of course, that's a basic tenet of logic and debate.  You have been told this dozens of times on this forum, but you stubbornly dispute it, because you cannot prove your pet deity exists.

Your system of 'proof' work no other way/make no logical sense other than being an obstical for God to over come and then/thereby be subjegated to 'science' thus proving He is not God.

Think about it in what trial is not eye witness testimony invalid? in what court is the eye witness testimony by billions thrown out and laught at?

Then a demand made that in order to prove an all powerful God subjugate Himself to the confines and limitation/predictable reactions to prodding and testing of small minded 'science' would thus disqualify him as being all powerful since He has made the declaration that He will hide himself from those who seek to discover God on those terms.

Proof is not for any of to give. All any of us can do it tell you where and how to find it. GOD Himself provides the proof. Once you find that/once you know what it is you are looking for, nothing for you can deny who/what God is.

A book of silly, flawed fairy tales is not proof.  Stories told by con men and witch doctors is not proof.  "Eye-witness testimony" contained in an old book of fairy tales is not "eye-witness".  (Now, if you had a few dozen texts from Roman, Greek, and Jewish historians written in the year 32-ish, that might have some value. These have not been found.) Personal stories about god go in the same category as personal stories about being abducted by aliens.  If people pray to experience something hard enough, most people will experience something and attribute it to - whatever they were told to expect.  I need more substantive proof.  If there is an all-powerful deity that actually wants humans to know of its existence, then it is quite capable of providing clear proof that cannot be mistaken for human fantasy and story telling.

(March 7, 2018 at 7:09 am)Lutrinae Wrote:

(March 7, 2018 at 2:03 am)Godscreated Wrote: I do not have the burden of proof on me because God has never told anyone to prove His existence, that He says is His work.

A convenient, rubbish, apologetic that frees the believer from any intellectual responsibility.  The same untruthful line could be used to personally validate belief in anything, and has been used to such an extent even especially by mentally ill people who prefer delusion over reality.

Okay Mr. Smarty, show me where in scripture God says we have to prove His existence to anyone. Christians can't even prove it to themselves, God reveals His existence to us, like I said it is His work. Then deluded one is the one who answered my post and wrote the above rubbish.

GC

---

(March 7, 2018 at 12:11 pm)drfuzzy Wrote:

(March 7, 2018 at 2:03 am)Godscreated Wrote: Being raised in any denomination and/or being associated with them doesn't mean you know what Christianity is, if you did as an atheist you wouldn't be playing in any church. Your the one doing it wrong and falsely accusing all those churches of condemning the others of false whatever. You being bigoted toward Christianity means what you have to say about it is worthless.
I do not have the burden of proof on me because God has never told anyone to prove His existence, that He says is His work. Your comic illustration is nothing more than comical, even on the childish side.  Then why do you play an organ in the church seems you are the hypocrite of hypocrites.

GC

In 1979, in music college, a professor told us "Never, under any circumstances, take a church job.  BUT! We're musicians, and we have to eat.  So most of you will."  (-- I should have changed majors right there. ) There are atheist church musician support groups - I'm a member of one.  It's impossible to guess how many of us there are, obviously, since in order to keep our weekend jobs we can't be "out".  (There are a lot of gay church musicians too.)  In the Bible Belt, the best guess is 20% of church musicians.  Some of my friends in Boston and LA are sure that the number of atheist church musicians is more than 50%.

Anyone who claims to have a personal relationship with an entity that cannot be seen, heard, or felt, and needs a human being to tell other human beings what its wants and needs are . . . oh yeah, the burden of proof is on the person making the claim.  And, of course, that's a basic tenet of logic and debate.  You have been told this dozens of times on this forum, but you stubbornly dispute it, because you cannot prove your pet deity exists.

 I've said many times here that I can not prove He exists to the satisfaction of those who deliberately blind themselves to the truth. I can tell you this I doubt you will find many atheist musicians in Southern Baptist churches. You treat me as if I'm stupid, yet you play music as an atheist every Sunday morning for something you do not even believe in, so who is the traitor to their own beliefs, I bet the churches you play for do not know you are an atheist, do they, bet you just go about acting out the part of a Christian just to get paid,a double standard that is nothing short of a lie. Have you no shame, pretending to be something you are not, betraying who you are and you all call me crazy.

GC

(March 8, 2018 at 2:58 am)Godscreated Wrote: I've said many times here that I can not prove He exists to the satisfaction of those who deliberately blind themselves to the truth.

You seem to be incapable of treating us with sufficient respect to consider that we are not withholding truth from ourselves on purpose -- we are merely utterly unconvinced by the batshit-insane claims that you and other believers make about a being that we sincerely believe to be no more than a figment of the human imagination.

For that libel against non-believers, I think you should slander the Holy Spirit in your dreams one night very soon, and lose the salvation you think you have.

Although I am quite convinced that you never possessed "salvation" in the first place and are not losing anything of actual worth.

The holy spirit can suck my talking donkey dick.