(March 5, 2018 at 11:23 am)Shell B Wrote:

(March 4, 2018 at 12:41 pm)A Theist Wrote: The Dems put up a piss poor candidate and lost one of their largest voting bases to Trump. Their identity politics campaign didn't resonate with those voters in the Rust Belt and Coal States.

Yeah, don't even blame the fact that your party also put up a piss poor candidate.

Did they? I mean if you put whatever you think about his politics aside, I'd say Trump is probably the greatest campaigner of all time. He barely had the support of his own party and was outspent like, 10 to 1. Maybe even more than that.

I don't like Trumps politics anymore than other people on these boards, but its pretty had to discredit him as a candidate.

It's easy to say Bernie would of won, but we don't really know that. General election is a lot more brutal to a candidate than the primaries are. My guess is he would of won though.

-and then he lost the pop vote by a greater margin than any other president in history. 

So, no, he's a shit candidate and a shit campaigner with a tiny cohort of shit supporters aided and abetted by domestic voter disenfranchisement and a hostile foreign power who wanted to watch us burn...the rest, lied about their embarrassing vote... but ambulated, eventually, to the idea that he was better than hitlery and left it at that.

The failure of identity politics is made more clear in trumps win over the republican establishment than it is in trumps historic loss with voters.  He was everything they were supposed to hate.

(March 11, 2018 at 12:44 pm)Khemikal Wrote: -and then he lost the pop vote by a greater margin than any other president in history. 

So, no, he's a shit candidate and a shit campaigner with a tiny cohort of shit supporters aided and abetted by domestic voter disenfranchisement and a hostile foreign power who wanted to watch us burn...the rest, lied about their embarrassing vote... but ambulated, eventually, to the idea that he was better than hitlery and left it at that.

The failure of identity politics is made more clear in trumps win over the republican establishment than it is in trumps historic loss with voters.  He was everything they were supposed to hate.

Nobody who becomes president is a shit campaigner. That's ridiculous. Some people, when they don't like someones politics will say that they are bad at everything automatically. Totally silly to say Trump is a shit campaigner. Its the same as when people always predict their side will win no matter what.

How can you call it a failure of identity politics when Trump became president? That's not a failure. Its the opposite of failure.

Calling it a historic loss is totally silly, because only 4 presidents have won when losing the popular vote, two of them deep in the past, when the population was much smaller. So thats statistically irrelevant.

(March 11, 2018 at 12:38 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote:

(March 5, 2018 at 11:23 am)Shell B Wrote: Yeah, don't even blame the fact that your party also put up a piss poor candidate.

Did they? I mean if you put whatever you think about his politics aside, I'd say Trump is probably the greatest campaigner of all time. He barely had the support of his own party and was outspent like, 10 to 1. Maybe even more than that.

I don't like Trumps politics anymore than other people on these boards, but its pretty had to discredit him as a candidate.

It's easy to say Bernie would of won, but we don't really know that. General election is a lot more brutal to a candidate than the primaries are. My guess is he would of won though.

Bernie might have won the Blue States like Lying Crooked Hillary did but it's doubtful he would have won any of the Red States that Trump won.  He would have lost the election.

Quote:Nobody who becomes president is a shit campaigner. That's ridiculous. Some people, when they don't like someones politics will say that they are bad at everything automatically. Totally silly to say Trump is a shit campaigner. Its the same as when people always predict their side will win no matter what. 

How can you call it a failure of identity politics when Trump became president? That's not a failure. Its the opposite of failure.

Calling it a historic loss is totally silly, because only 4 presidents have won when losing the popular vote, two of them deep in the past, when the population was much smaller. So thats statistically irrelevant.

(March 11, 2018 at 5:38 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: Nobody who becomes president is a shit campaigner. That's ridiculous.

At least one guy has, and I agree that it's ridiculous...but here we are.

Quote:Some people, when they don't like someones politics will say that they are bad at everything automatically. Totally silly to say Trump is a shit campaigner. Its the same as when people always predict their side will win no matter what.  

Trump was (and still is) a shit campaigner.  

Quote:How can you call it a failure of identity politics when Trump became president? That's not a failure.  Its the opposite of failure.

Just as I did.  By pointing out that Trump was everything his base was supposed to hate.  Decades spent crafting and marketing the republican identity, all shitcanned.

Quote:Calling it a historic loss is totally silly, because only 4 presidents have won when losing the popular vote, two of them deep in the past, when the population was much smaller. So thats statistically irrelevant.

-and even among those four, his loss with voters was historic.  Trump is a shit campaigner who ran his party into the dirt.  Would he have been "better than hitlery" with republicans if he'd stayed on script?

OFC he would have been.  Hillary hate is pathological.  All his campaigning did was smear them with a stink that won't come off easily while squandering full control of government and here we are with a stalled agenda (for better or worse) as a result.  

Is that great campaigning now, in Trumps america?  Or can we accept the possibility that reports of trumps "greatness" have been wildly exaggerated in every possible way in order to fish up some salvageable thing about the admin? I could appreciate a person whose politics I loathed but whose skill was undeniable. Trump is not that man.

Hillary was a terrible candidate. Putin was throwing it for him. Voters have been intentionally disenfranchised all across the nation. Still, he manages to lose the pop vote and sends his flying monkeys off to look for millions of imaginary illegals. That's how bad of a campaigner he is. The guy has the reverse midas , everything he touches turns to shit, lol.

(March 12, 2018 at 1:51 am)Khemikal Wrote:

(March 11, 2018 at 5:38 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: Nobody who becomes president is a shit campaigner. That's ridiculous.

At least one guy has, and I agree that it's ridiculous...but here we are.

Quote:Some people, when they don't like someones politics will say that they are bad at everything automatically. Totally silly to say Trump is a shit campaigner. Its the same as when people always predict their side will win no matter what.  

Trump was (and still is) a shit campaigner.  

Quote:How can you call it a failure of identity politics when Trump became president? That's not a failure.  Its the opposite of failure.

Just as I did.  By pointing out that Trump was everything his base was supposed to hate.  Decades spent crafting and marketing the republican identity, all shitcanned.

Quote:Calling it a historic loss is totally silly, because only 4 presidents have won when losing the popular vote, two of them deep in the past, when the population was much smaller. So thats statistically irrelevant.

-and even among those four, his loss with voters was historic.  Trump is a shit campaigner who ran his party into the dirt.  Would he have been "better than hitlery" with republicans if he'd stayed on script?

OFC he would have been.  Hillary hate is pathological.  All his campaigning did was smear them with a stink that won't come off easily while squandering full control of government and here we are with a stalled agenda (for better or worse) as a result.  

Is that great campaigning now, in Trumps america?  Or can we accept the possibility that reports of trumps "greatness" have been wildly exaggerated in every possible way in order to fish up some salvageable thing about the admin? I could appreciate a person whose politics I loathed but whose skill was undeniable. Trump is not that man.

Hillary was a terrible candidate. Putin was throwing it for him. Voters have been intentionally disenfranchised all across the nation. Still, he manages to lose the pop vote and sends his flying monkeys off to look for millions of imaginary illegals. That's how bad of a campaigner he is. The guy has the reverse midas , everything he touches turns to shit, lol.

All of those things you mention are part of being a good campaigner, not a bad one. You are just mentioning reasons hes a bad person, but obviously a good campaigner.

Everything his base is supposed to hate, but wins them over anyway=good campaigner

Systematically smearing his opponents one by one and ratcheting up the Hillary hate to 11=good campaigner

Getting the Russians to help=good campaigner

I mean admitting that he's a good campaigner is not admitting any sort of moral quality in the man, rwally its exactly the opposite. You have to be a shitty person to be a good campaigner. but i doubt you'd really ever say anything positive about Trump, even to admit the obvious. So I don't really see the point in having a conversation with you about it, since I can just fill in your opinion myself.

There's some fundamental problem in the American mentality. I often find myself thinking that I wouldn't associate with anyone who opposes gun control, and then I remember that several of my dad's friends actually do oppose gun control, but they're perfectly lovely people otherwise. One of them is my godfather/guardian/whatever it's called according to my parents' will, if anything happens to them. He's a devout Christian and a gun rights campaigner, yet my parents trust him with their (and my) life. It's insane that so many good people are against gun control. I just don't get it.

That being said, I do hope that the next election, aka the first that I will vote in, will bring the end of the Trump Age.

(March 12, 2018 at 3:18 am)DodosAreDead Wrote: There's some fundamental problem in the American mentality. I often find myself thinking that I wouldn't associate with anyone who opposes gun control, and then I remember that several of my dad's friends actually do oppose gun control, but they're perfectly lovely people otherwise. One of them is my godfather/guardian/whatever it's called according to my parents' will, if anything happens to them. He's a devout Christian and a gun rights campaigner, yet my parents trust him with their (and my) life. It's insane that so many good people are against gun control. I just don't get it.

That being said, I do hope that the next election, aka the first that I will vote in, will bring the end of the Trump Age.

If you just don't get it, maybe have an open and honest conversation with them about it. Its funny how people say phrases like that "I don't understand how these people can believe....." like its an intellectual strength or something to not understand something.

(March 12, 2018 at 2:56 am)CapnAwesome Wrote: All of those things you mention are part of being a good campaigner, not a bad one. You are just mentioning reasons hes a bad person, but obviously a good campaigner.

Historically losing the pop vote by destroying your party's brand and alienating america to the point that you can;t effectively govern is good campaigning?  

Quote:Everything his base is supposed to hate, but wins them over anyway=good campaigner

He didn;t win them over..they voted against hitlery....remember........

Quote:Systematically smearing his opponents one by one and ratcheting up the Hillary hate to 11=good campaigner

Hillary hate is a preexisting condition..he didn't build that.  

Quote:Getting the Russians to help=good campaigner

Ignoring the subtle misiniformation in contextualizing collusion this way....what you are talking about is illegal.  Do you think that breaking the rules of golf makes you good at golf too?  If I just walked up and dropped the ball in the hole..or better yuet.,.,stayed at the clubhouse and just wrote a bunch of holes in..would that make me a golf pro?  

Quote:I mean admitting that he's a good campaigner is not admitting any sort of moral quality in the man, rwally its exactly the opposite.  You have to be a shitty person to be a good campaigner. but i doubt you'd really ever say anything positive about Trump, even to admit the obvious.  So I don't really see the point in having a conversation with you about it, since I can just fill in your opinion myself.

Literally nothing you just said is true, lol.  He's not a good campaigner..there's no rule that you have to be an asshole to be a good campaigner, and I think he did great work dismantling the republican dog whistle program.  Further, even though he turns everything he touches to shit..he does fairly well in the process. The same has been true of the presidency thusfar. I think he's a solid grifter...and while some may use or view that as an insult..recall my comments earlier about appreciating people who are good at their jobs. If you want to talk about trump the crook..I'll having nothing but incredulous praise for the man (I'm still giggling about the rico case he dodged, for now)..but trump the campaigner..lolnah. Shit. Abject shit.

I can't fathom your need to inflate the man in this way.  You're not a trumphumper, I'm not a demoncratic partisan...this nonsense goes beyond the call of duty for devils advocacy. We're allowed to point out that a trash candidate ran a trash campaign against trash opposition and now heads a trash administration with no whiff of a mandate and under the cloud of foreign interference in the overall context of the un-democratization of the united states of america.

There's no need to bullshit anyone about his crowd size, Cap. Let him handle that.