(March 14, 2018 at 12:30 pm)He lives Wrote:

(March 14, 2018 at 6:30 am)robvalue Wrote: Our new Christians are welcome to tell me why I should care about Christianity, even if it's true. Is there anything other than "join or you'll be sorry"?

It is not about join or you'll be sorry, it is learning the importance loving everyone through word and deed.

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(March 14, 2018 at 12:22 pm)Crossless2.0 Wrote: *Bolding mine*

Research papers lay out their methodology so others who weren't there can review them and determine if there were problems with the manner in which the experiments were conducted or with the interpretation of the results and, if possible, to repeat the experiments under controlled circumstances to either confirm or disconfirm the previous findings. That's not bias. That's science.

Susan Blackmore made a statement that does absolutely show bias.

No, Blackmore made an empirical and falsifiable claim about what you would expect to see in the brain wave patterns if Miss Z awoke and stood up and what Tart's own study supposedly showed. Again, that's not bias. That's science.

(March 14, 2018 at 12:34 pm)Crossless2.0 Wrote:

(March 14, 2018 at 12:30 pm)He lives Wrote: It is not about join or you'll be sorry, it is learning the importance loving everyone through word and deed.

That claim might be a bit more compelling if there wasn't that nagging damnation thingy hanging over it all.

If learning to love others through word and deed is the bottom line, you might as well be a Buddhist.

You don't believe in punishment for evildoers? There is no punishment for doing the right thing.

(March 14, 2018 at 12:45 pm)He lives Wrote:

(March 14, 2018 at 12:34 pm)Crossless2.0 Wrote: That claim might be a bit more compelling if there wasn't that nagging damnation thingy hanging over it all.

If learning to love others through word and deed is the bottom line, you might as well be a Buddhist.

You don't believe in punishment for evildoers? There is no punishment for doing the right thing.

Punishment for evildoers? Yes, I'm a strong supporter of a sound judicial system and punishments commensurate with crimes committed.

What I don't believe in are eternal punishments for finite crimes or for 'thought crimes' like not believing in the right savior figure. That's your gang.

(March 14, 2018 at 12:41 pm)Crossless2.0 Wrote:

(March 14, 2018 at 12:30 pm)He lives Wrote: It is not about join or you'll be sorry, it is learning the importance loving everyone through word and deed.

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Susan Blackmore made a statement that does absolutely show bias.

No, Blackmore made an empirical and falsifiable claim about what you would expect to see in the brain wave patterns if Miss Z awoke and stood up and what Tart's own study supposedly showed. Again, that's not bias. That's science.

She is stating that the change in brainwave activity shows that she stood up. It does not necessarily mean that. She has stated an opinion not an absolute. It would have been better it there was a video camera in the room. However this was conducted in 1968. I am sure if it was reenacted today there would be a video camera present.

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(March 14, 2018 at 12:54 pm)He lives Wrote:

(March 14, 2018 at 12:41 pm)Crossless2.0 Wrote: No, Blackmore made an empirical and falsifiable claim about what you would expect to see in the brain wave patterns if Miss Z awoke and stood up and what Tart's own study supposedly showed. Again, that's not bias. That's science.

She is stating that the change in brainwave activity shows that she stood up. It does not necessarily mean that. She has stated an opinion not an absolute. It would have been better it there was a video camera in the room. However this was conducted in 1968. I am sure if it was reenacted today there would be a video camera present.

Also according to the diagram she could not stand up without being disconnected.

(March 14, 2018 at 12:54 pm)He lives Wrote:

(March 14, 2018 at 12:41 pm)Crossless2.0 Wrote: No, Blackmore made an empirical and falsifiable claim about what you would expect to see in the brain wave patterns if Miss Z awoke and stood up and what Tart's own study supposedly showed. Again, that's not bias. That's science.

She is stating that the change in brainwave activity shows that she stood up. It does not necessarily mean that. She has stated an opinion not an absolute. It would have been better it there was a video camera in the room. However this was conducted in 1968. I am sure if it was reenacted today there would be a video camera present.

She said no such thing. Here's the relevant part from what I quoted earlier:

Susan Blackmore wrote "If Miss Z had tried to climb up, the brain-wave record would have showed a pattern of interference. And that was exactly what it did show."[10]

The brain-wave pattern showed interference consistent with what one would expect to find 'if Miss Z had tried to climb up'. This alone is sufficient to cast doubt on whether an actual OBE happened.

As for the rest, it's a pity that video hadn't been invented by 1968. It sure would have come in handy. 

(March 14, 2018 at 12:52 pm)Crossless2.0 Wrote:

(March 14, 2018 at 12:45 pm)He lives Wrote: You don't believe in punishment for evildoers? There is no punishment for doing the right thing.

Punishment for evildoers? Yes, I'm a strong supporter of a sound judicial system and punishments commensurate with crimes committed.

What I don't believe in are eternal punishments for finite crimes or for 'thought crimes' like not believing in the right savior figure. That's your gang.

That is not my gang. However, there are things I punish myself for doing because I wish I hadn't done them. I may never forget this. We are our own judge and jury especially when we see our life review. We also punish ourselves for not doing things we wish we would have done.

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(March 14, 2018 at 1:02 pm)Crossless2.0 Wrote:

(March 14, 2018 at 12:54 pm)He lives Wrote: She is stating that the change in brainwave activity shows that she stood up. It does not necessarily mean that. She has stated an opinion not an absolute. It would have been better it there was a video camera in the room. However this was conducted in 1968. I am sure if it was reenacted today there would be a video camera present.

She said no such thing. Here's the relevant part from what I quoted earlier:

Susan Blackmore wrote "If Miss Z had tried to climb up, the brain-wave record would have showed a pattern of interference. And that was exactly what it did show."[10]

The brain-wave pattern showed interference consistent with what one would expect to find 'if Miss Z had tried to climb up'. This alone is sufficient to cast doubt on whether an actual OBE happened.

As for the rest, it's a pity that video hadn't been invented by 1968. It sure would have come in handy. 

As I said she would have been disconnected if she tried to get up. Susan did net take this into account, but she was not there.

http://blog.paradigm-sys.com/

(March 14, 2018 at 1:09 pm)He lives Wrote:

(March 14, 2018 at 12:52 pm)Crossless2.0 Wrote: Punishment for evildoers? Yes, I'm a strong supporter of a sound judicial system and punishments commensurate with crimes committed.

What I don't believe in are eternal punishments for finite crimes or for 'thought crimes' like not believing in the right savior figure. That's your gang.

That is not my gang. However, there are things I punish myself for doing because I wish I hadn't done them. I may never forget this. We are our own judge and jury especially when we see our life review. We also punish ourselves for not doing things we wish we would have done.

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(March 14, 2018 at 1:02 pm)Crossless2.0 Wrote: She said no such thing. Here's the relevant part from what I quoted earlier:

Susan Blackmore wrote "If Miss Z had tried to climb up, the brain-wave record would have showed a pattern of interference. And that was exactly what it did show."[10]

The brain-wave pattern showed interference consistent with what one would expect to find 'if Miss Z had tried to climb up'. This alone is sufficient to cast doubt on whether an actual OBE happened.

As for the rest, it's a pity that video hadn't been invented by 1968. It sure would have come in handy. 

As I said she would have been disconnected if she tried to get up. Susan did net take this into account, but she was not there.

So a diagram not drawn to scale is your hope for salvaging a study that is pretty much universally discounted by everyone but those with a strong desire that it be so? Have fun with that.

(March 12, 2018 at 12:24 pm)drfuzzy Wrote:

(March 12, 2018 at 11:02 am)Drich Wrote:

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What if said proof points you into a completely different direction?

Apart of my proof came in a 180* different view of Hell. I only knew a version of Dante' inferno, came to find out I experenced a completely different version of Hell. so much so I almost dismissed the whole experience, till I started reading the bible. Then began to read descriptions of Hell that I experienced months or even years prior.

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How are you a doctor of anything??


Despite what you guys think God is active and alive in HIS Churches.

Religious fantasies and group hypnosis and self-hypnosis do not qualify as "eye-witness".

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what a 3 dimensional way of thinking.

What if the whole of reality exceeded the confines of 3 dimensional thought?
That would make your meme unless and your assessment of Billions of people across time sharing the same 'group hypnosis even if they never had access to God or the bible.

(March 14, 2018 at 1:15 pm)Crossless2.0 Wrote:

(March 14, 2018 at 1:09 pm)He lives Wrote: That is not my gang. However, there are things I punish myself for doing because I wish I hadn't done them. I may never forget this. We are our own judge and jury especially when we see our life review. We also punish ourselves for not doing things we wish we would have done.

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As I said she would have been disconnected if she tried to get up. Susan did net take this into account, but she was not there.

So a diagram not drawn to scale is your hope for salvaging a study that is pretty much universally discounted by everyone but those with a strong desire that it be so? Have fun with that.

You weren't there either, and yes I do indeed discount Susan's statement.

(March 14, 2018 at 1:30 pm)He lives Wrote:

(March 14, 2018 at 1:15 pm)Crossless2.0 Wrote: So a diagram not drawn to scale is your hope for salvaging a study that is pretty much universally discounted by everyone but those with a strong desire that it be so? Have fun with that.

You weren't there either, and yes I do indeed discount Susan's statement.

If we're going to play that game, you weren't there either. So you are going to place your faith in the "results" of a study in which the chief investigator admits to dozing off and failing to maintain adequate controls.

Lol