(April 8, 2018 at 5:29 pm)ShirkahnW Wrote: I am going to debate a theist over the existence of god soon. What are the best arguments you ever heard from theists? Any tips on what topic to avoid in such an discussion? 
Thanks in advance

A brain can't develop without thinking beforehand. Thoroughly apodictic.

(April 8, 2018 at 5:48 pm)Minimalist Wrote: I have yet to see one of them produce an argument that can survive the "do you have evidence for your claim" test.

And it comes as a real shock to them when you tell them that their silly-assed bible is not evidence.  It is merely the claim.

I would argue that life only comes from life. This is a fact not a claim.

It has never been observed or demonstrated that life can spawn from non-life, therefore making abiogenesis a claim for which no evidence exists.

(April 8, 2018 at 10:47 pm)Lutrinae Wrote: To be honest, the entire definition argument is just semantics wearing a dictionary cloak.

By all standards, we know what someone means when they refer to a god.

Indeed we do.

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Quote: I would argue that life only comes from life. This is a fact not a claim.

It has never been observed or demonstrated that life can spawn from non-life, therefore making abiogenesis a claim for which no evidence exists.

Yet, Huggy.  Science is working on the issue unlike creatard fools who cling to their stupid fucking bibles and insist that their god played in the dirt.  You know what, Huggy?  That has never been observed or demonstrated either.

And you never will.

(April 10, 2018 at 2:03 am)Minimalist Wrote: Yet, Huggy.  Science is working on the issue unlike creatard fools who cling to their stupid fucking bibles and insist that their god played in the dirt.  You know what, Huggy?  That has never been observed or demonstrated either.

And you never will.

So the best you can do is "science is working on it"? Somehow I don't think that answer would fly if a theist said it in relation to God.

Huggy thinks the most awesome demonstration of Christian perspicacity is intone same old creationist bullshit in a slightly more didactic voice. So it is pointless to analyze his “argument” with him.

What did god make life out of?

The best argument that a theist could present for God is:

I don't know, but why not?

At least it would be an honest answer.

(April 10, 2018 at 2:32 am)robvalue Wrote: What did god make life out of?

Out of himself? Did he not breathe life into Adam?

(April 8, 2018 at 5:29 pm)ShirkahnW Wrote: I am going to debate a theist over the existence of god soon. What are the best arguments you ever heard from theists? Any tips on what topic to avoid in such an discussion? 
Thanks in advance

The best, best?.... Aristotle and Aquinas' metaphysics.
Still, when they come around and say "to this (unmoved mover, uncaused causer, etc) we call god", we can, nowadays, also say that space-time fits the descriptor.
The "god" designation comes with a bunch of baggage in people's minds, while space-time is still something people struggle with.... it's not just space... not just time. Space-time can bring forth matter and energy out of "nothing". Space-time is not in time... space-time is not a box in space and time, it is the framework upon which everything we know of operates.

I've been trying to find some good argument that convinces me that aristotelian forms are independent of reasoning beings, as Aquinas claims... so, until then, I think those forms are contingent on thinking capabilities. Thinking capabilities that we only know to exist in brains, brains that have evolved from simpler survival mechanisms, etc, etc, etc... abiogenesis, planet formation, star stuff, quark and gluon plasma, big bang... space-time? It seems that everything has progressed from simpler configurations to more complex ones, at the expense of everything getting farther away from each other.
We humans are at a unique position today, being able to infer these things... but a mere 100 years ago, it was not so. Let alone way back in the days of Aquinas, or even Aristotle. So they are forgiven to think as they did. And many today should too, for not many dedicate themselves to trying to gather information from many corners of knowledge and make sense of it all.

What I can't understand is the evangelical sola-scriptura attitude. That is just dumb, as evidenced by Ken Ham and company.

(April 10, 2018 at 2:46 am)Huggy74 Wrote:

(April 10, 2018 at 2:32 am)robvalue Wrote: What did god make life out of?

Out of himself? Did he not breathe life into Adam?

He breathes life into everyone. The immortal soul you believe in is conveyed via the breath.