(May 11, 2018 at 7:54 am)Fake Messiah Wrote:

(May 11, 2018 at 7:31 am)Little Rik Wrote: Well, well, well son........

Let us start from the beginning.
Do you remember when I did ask in several occasion ..........what is the difference between religion and spirituality?

Obviously you like all other atheists never take this question very seriously because for you guys there is no difference between the two.
HOW WRONG YOU ARE.  

The difference is paramount however.

Religions being based on pure dogmas tend to behave like a destructive avalanche.
The more the time goes by the more the dogmas get out of control so it is natural that people who follow this destructive path tend to go insane like shown in your video.
Spirituality on the other hand is free from dogmas so it is natural that people do not go insane.

But hold your breath yet FM.
Atheism follow a similar destructive path to madness by following other types of dogmas so instead of laughing like a fool you really should think twice what you think, say and do.  

Actually, LR, there is no indication that the followers of Swamis, Babas and other what you would call "non-religions" (you know people like you) are any less ridiculous and any less insane then religious people:

In Hinduism, a swami (Sanskrit: स्वामी svāmī [sʋaːmiː]), sometimes abbreviated sw., is an ascetic or yogi who has been initiated into the religious monastic order, founded by some religious teacher............

https://www.google.com/search?client=fir...80&bih=686

As you can see as a rule Swamis follow a religion.
The followers of the Swami Sai Baba were attracted to him mainly for his small miracles.
No doubt that Sai Baba was a very good person but a real guru will not waste his-her time attracting people with the lure of easy miracles.
That is still religion not spirituality.

Spirituality is a different story.
A real guru will only come to you and into your life when you are ready.
Ready to receive and to host in your heart the divine message.  

(May 11, 2018 at 9:27 am)Little Rik Wrote: As you can see as a rule Swamis follow a religion.
The followers of the Swami Sai Baba were attracted to him mainly for his small miracles.
No doubt that Sai Baba was a very good person but a real guru will not waste his-her time attracting people with the lure of easy miracles.
That is still religion not spirituality.

Quote:I remember asking one of the followers — a very bright and highly educated guy — if he really believed that Baba [Little Rik's guru] could fly or control the weather or that Finnish (which he spoke) was related to Polish. He gave me a resigned look and said in a monotone voice as if he had said it a million times before, “Yes I do. Now, can we talk about something else?”

Finally, a religious book about mangos

Quote:Then speaking directly to Tej Karan, Baba [Little Rik's guru] said, "You have no strength in your body or nerves. Even if I wanted to give you something, you lack the power to withstand it. But still I will do something."

Then He called, "Tej Karan!", simultaneously snapping His thumb and index finger. Instantly, Tej Karan collapsed on the floor and started twisting and twirling like a serpent, as though he had no bone in his body. Even eight strong men could not bring him under control. A very strong sannyásii was thrown away like a feather in the attempt.

Finally he became quiet. Before leaving the room, Baba asked us to massage him and give him hot milk after he recovered consciousness.

After one hour Tej Karan could sit up. Then I asked him to describe the experience. He said that a strong light emanating from Baba had passed into him, electrifying his body from head to toe. A wriggling snake as tough as a steel rod (the kun'dalinii) started rising from his muládhára cakra at the base of his spine and pushed upwards like a "piston moving in a steam engine." The flow of energy was so strong that he felt it could light many powerful bulbs. At one point he felt that he might explode like a bomb. Unable to assimilate the vibrations, he collapsed and was lost in an ineffable ocean of bliss.

Needless to say the tenth letter he wrote was positive! He was a double MA. and a very rational man, but after that experience, he would declare in superlatives to all sorts of people, that Baba was Parama Purus'a. Cynical persons declared that he was out of his senses. In fact he remained divinely intoxicated for several months, and it took more than two years for Tej Karan to regain normalcy.

Baba gave these and many other dramatic demonstrations to facilitate the progress of disciples on the spiritual path. It cannot be claimed that they were public displays of miracles.[11]

In early February of 1969[12], in the Ranchi jagrti, I watched Baba conduct three death demonstrations. The modus operandi was that Baba would call someone attending the general darshan and ask that person to sit in front of Him He then would announce, "I am going to conduct the death demonstration." Then without touching the person's body, He would order nine of the vayus (vital airs) - prán'a, apána, samána, udána, vyána, krkara, nága, kurma, devadatta - to leave the body. (The tenth vayu, dhanainjaya, leaves only after the disintegration of the corpse on the funeral pyre or in the grave.) As the váyus left one by one, the subject would start gasping for breath, frothing at the mouth and ultimately fall down, dead!

There was always more than one doctor present. In one case I remember, Dr. Ramesh (recently retired as vice-principal of Ranchi Medical College) examined the subject thoroughly and declared him clinically dead. Baba said that if left in that condition, ants would start congregating around the body within half an hour. But then He ordered, one by one, all the vayus to return, bringing life back to the body. He advised us to massage the body for a long period and administer hot milk since the joints had become very weak as a result of the experience. According to Baba, normal death is not painful, though death caused by accident or certain diseases may be.

Glimpses Of A Mystery

(May 11, 2018 at 8:13 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(May 11, 2018 at 7:31 am)Little Rik Wrote: Religions being based on pure dogmas tend to behave like a destructive avalanche.
The more the time goes by the more the dogmas get out of control so it is natural that people who follow this destructive path tend to go insane like shown in your video.
Spirituality on the other hand is free from dogmas so it is natural that people do not go insane.

Since  the following dogmas are foundational to your "system," it is obvious that you practice a religion.

1. Vibrations are alive/conscious.
2. Energy is alive/conscious.
3. Inanimate matter is conscious.
4. Life cannot come from non-life.

(You've been arguing these claims since April 7th, here, and the best you can come up with is, "I am quite satisfied that vibrations bring life therefore they are alive.")

You are not answering my question yog.  

You say that you do not make a claim but you do indeed.
By saying that there is not a creator you automatically say that the universe pop up by non life so now is up to you to explain where this non life suppose to be or to come from.

I on the other hand base my statements that life come from previous life.
This is science while yours is a guess based on nothing.

Einstein and other already made it clear that everything is made of vibrations.
Once again science tell us that everything that move on his own accord has life in it.
You see yog?
I follow science while  you only follow dreams, fantasies and BS.  

---

(May 11, 2018 at 9:37 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(May 11, 2018 at 9:27 am)Little Rik Wrote: As you can see as a rule Swamis follow a religion.
The followers of the Swami Sai Baba were attracted to him mainly for his small miracles.
No doubt that Sai Baba was a very good person but a real guru will not waste his-her time attracting people with the lure of easy miracles.
That is still religion not spirituality.

Quote:I remember asking one of the followers — a very bright and highly educated guy — if he really believed that Baba [Little Rik's guru] could fly or control the weather or that Finnish (which he spoke) was related to Polish. He gave me a resigned look and said in a monotone voice as if he had said it a million times before, “Yes I do. Now, can we talk about something else?”  

Finally, a religious book about mangos

Quote:Then speaking directly to Tej Karan, Baba [Little Rik's guru] said, "You have no strength in your body or nerves. Even if I wanted to give you something, you lack the power to withstand it. But still I will do something."

Then He called, "Tej Karan!", simultaneously snapping His thumb and index finger. Instantly, Tej Karan collapsed on the floor and started twisting and twirling like a serpent, as though he had no bone in his body. Even eight strong men could not bring him under control. A very strong sannyásii was thrown away like a feather in the attempt.

Finally he became quiet. Before leaving the room, Baba asked us to massage him and give him hot milk after he recovered consciousness.

After one hour Tej Karan could sit up. Then I asked him to describe the experience. He said that a strong light emanating from Baba had passed into him, electrifying his body from head to toe. A wriggling snake as tough as a steel rod (the kun'dalinii) started rising from his muládhára cakra at the base of his spine and pushed upwards like a "piston moving in a steam engine." The flow of energy was so strong that he felt it could light many powerful bulbs. At one point he felt that he might explode like a bomb. Unable to assimilate the vibrations, he collapsed and was lost in an ineffable ocean of bliss.

Needless to say the tenth letter he wrote was positive! He was a double MA. and a very rational man, but after that experience, he would declare in superlatives to all sorts of people, that Baba was Parama Purus'a. Cynical persons declared that he was out of his senses. In fact he remained divinely intoxicated for several months, and it took more than two years for Tej Karan to regain normalcy.

Baba gave these and many other dramatic demonstrations to facilitate the progress of disciples on the spiritual path. It cannot be claimed that they were public displays of miracles.[11]

In early February of 1969[12], in the Ranchi jagrti, I watched Baba conduct three death demonstrations. The modus operandi was that Baba would call someone attending the general darshan and ask that person to sit in front of Him He then would announce, "I am going to conduct the death demonstration." Then without touching the person's body, He would order nine of the vayus (vital airs) - prán'a, apána, samána, udána, vyána, krkara, nága, kurma, devadatta - to leave the body. (The tenth vayu, dhanainjaya, leaves only after the disintegration of the corpse on the funeral pyre or in the grave.) As the váyus left one by one, the subject would start gasping for breath, frothing at the mouth and ultimately fall down, dead!

There was always more than one doctor present. In one case I remember, Dr. Ramesh (recently retired as vice-principal of Ranchi Medical College) examined the subject thoroughly and declared him clinically dead. Baba said that if left in that condition, ants would start congregating around the body within half an hour. But then He ordered, one by one, all the vayus to return, bringing life back to the body. He advised us to massage the body for a long period and administer hot milk since the joints had become very weak as a result of the experience. According to Baba, normal death is not painful, though death caused by accident or certain diseases may be.

Glimpses Of A Mystery

Here you got the evidence that my guru is the real spiritual guru.  

A religious teacher if he-she can will show miracles in order to attract people to him-her but a real guru will not do that although he-she can do extraordinary things or what people call miracles.
These people who witnessed Baba extraordinary things were already initiated in spirituality not strangers to spirituality.
My guru never did show something extraordinary to anyone in order to attract them to him.

Only after people struggle to reach new high in spirituality Baba may have shown them extraordinary things.

An other thing is that people must be prepared to take it.
There is no point in teaching something that is taught in the uni to a child in the primary.
He could not understand anyway.  

The guy clearly had a fetish for massages and hot milk.  What we have evidence of, here, is that you;re a credulous loon, Rik.

(May 11, 2018 at 8:13 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: Since  the following dogmas are foundational to your "system," it is obvious that you practice a religion.

1. Vibrations are alive/conscious.
2. Energy is alive/conscious.
3. Inanimate matter is conscious.
4. Life cannot come from non-life.

(You've been arguing these claims since April 7th, here, and the best you can come up with is, "I am quite satisfied that vibrations bring life therefore they are alive.")

(May 11, 2018 at 9:47 am)Little Rik Wrote: You are not answering my question yog.  

You say that you do not make a claim but you do indeed.
By saying that there is not a creator you automatically say that the universe pop up by non life so now is up to you to explain where this non life suppose to be or to come from.

In the first place, no I have not made such a claim. Second, even if I had, it would be irrelevant to the question of whether your beliefs are dogma or not.
You're simply trying to sidetrack the conversation with irrelevant bullshit.

(May 11, 2018 at 9:47 am)Little Rik Wrote: I on the other hand base my statements that life come from previous life.
This is science while yours is a guess based on nothing.

And I've repeatedly pointed out that you have not provided one bit of scientific evidence for your claim. Put up or shut up.

(May 11, 2018 at 9:47 am)Little Rik Wrote: Einstein and other already made it clear that everything is made of vibrations.
Once again science tell us that everything that move on his own accord has life in it.
You see yog?
I follow science while  you only follow dreams, fantasies and BS.  

Einstein may have said, "Everything in life is vibration." That is not the same thing as saying that vibrations and energy are alive.

Once again you claim that science says this or that without evidence that it does. Put up or shut up.

Support your claims or accept the inevitable conclusion that your beliefs are based on dogma.

(April 8, 2018 at 5:29 pm)ShirkahnW Wrote: I am going to debate a theist over the existence of god soon. What are the best arguments you ever heard from theists? Any tips on what topic to avoid in such an discussion? 
Thanks in advance

Probably the best argument is that "the universe is set up for life" of course I don't believe that, but it's probably the most compelling to an undecided person.

Also "life cannot come from non life"

It really all depends on the type of theist your dealing with. They could have any number of arguments. Is this a deist or a young earth creationist? Jst watch some christian apologists debates and you'll get a good idea of their favorite arguments.

(May 11, 2018 at 11:54 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(May 11, 2018 at 8:13 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: Since  the following dogmas are foundational to your "system," it is obvious that you practice a religion.

1. Vibrations are alive/conscious.
2. Energy is alive/conscious.
3. Inanimate matter is conscious.
4. Life cannot come from non-life.

(You've been arguing these claims since April 7th, here, and the best you can come up with is, "I am quite satisfied that vibrations bring life therefore they are alive.")

(May 11, 2018 at 9:47 am)Little Rik Wrote: You are not answering my question yog.  

You say that you do not make a claim but you do indeed.
By saying that there is not a creator you automatically say that the universe pop up by non life so now is up to you to explain where this non life suppose to be or to come from.

In the first place, no I have not made such a claim.  Second, even if I had, it would be irrelevant to the question of whether your beliefs are dogma or not.
You're simply trying to sidetrack the conversation with irrelevant bullshit.

(May 11, 2018 at 9:47 am)Little Rik Wrote: I on the other hand base my statements that life come from previous life.
This is science while yours is a guess based on nothing.

And I've repeatedly pointed out that you have not provided one bit of scientific evidence for your claim.  Put up or shut up.

(May 11, 2018 at 9:47 am)Little Rik Wrote: Einstein and other already made it clear that everything is made of vibrations.
Once again science tell us that everything that move on his own accord has life in it.
You see yog?
I follow science while  you only follow dreams, fantasies and BS.  

Einstein may have said, "Everything in life is vibration."  That is not the same thing as saying that vibrations and energy are alive.

Once again you claim that science says this or that without evidence that it does.  Put up or shut up.

Support your claims or accept the inevitable conclusion that your beliefs are based on dogma.

You are not answering the question.

AS AN ATHEIST YOU DO MAKE A CLAIM BY SAYING THAT THERE IS NO CREATOR right?
If there is no creator then life must come from non life, right?  

Where is the non life yog?  

CAN YOU ANSWER THE QUESTION ONCE AND FOR ALL?

(May 13, 2018 at 9:13 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(May 11, 2018 at 11:54 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: Support your claims or accept the inevitable conclusion that your beliefs are based on dogma.

You are not answering the question.

AS AN ATHEIST YOU DO MAKE A CLAIM BY SAYING THAT THERE IS NO CREATOR right?
If there is no creator then life must come from non life, right?  

Where is the non life yog?  

CAN YOU ANSWER THE QUESTION ONCE AND FOR ALL?

So what you're saying is that you believe that both your worldview and mine are based on dogma and therefore they are both wrong. Is that correct?

The best evidence for anything godlike has to do with our conscious interface with our identity or overall consciousness. In that there is reason to think consciousness goes on without our conscious involvement. Dreams, hallucinations, sudden insight and creative inspiration are all evidence of a depth of consciousness which isn’t a product of any deliberate choice we’ve made. If you want to call that God okay, but then how about dialing back the claims made regarding the attributes and powers of God accordingly. Oh and just toss out the Bible.

The best argument for God is the pantheistic one which says that God is the Universe
This differs from classical theism which just says that the Universe is evidence of God

The first premise of the Kalam is false and the second premise is not proven
That renders the argument invalid and the discussion should then end there