(May 19, 2018 at 5:44 am)robvalue Wrote: I wanted to say something else on the subject of "faith".

I can have faith in a person, based on my past experiences with them. If they've always shown they know what they are doing in some regard, I'll have faith in them that they'll continue to be good at that particular thing. If, however, I witness them fouling it up, causing chaos and getting awful results, I would have no faith in them in the future.

Faith has different meanings in different contexts.

I have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow. It's due to several factors, including:

A clear, consistent track record of the sun rising.
My understanding of the composition of the sun, and how its mass affects gravity.
My understanding of the earth, and how it rotates on its axis.

Similarly, my faith in certain people is due to:

What I've learned about their character.
Their past actions.
Etc.

An atheist's faith is really a comment on probability. Because of a combination of knowledge and past experiences with verifiable phenomena (it's uncontroversial to state that the sun, the earth, my family and friends all exist), we extrapolate what is likely to happen in the future. It's wholly different than religious faith, which isn't substantially different than wish-casting in the face of personal incredulity.

(May 18, 2018 at 3:31 am)snowtracks Wrote: The Universe had a beginning, therefore God.

So a mindless non-supernatural singularity can be labelled with the word "God"?

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(May 18, 2018 at 4:59 am)KittyAnn Wrote:

Quote:Why do you guys always trot out this "saved" business?
Saved from what?

saved us from death and of eternal damnation.... He gave us eternal life ..(after the death of the body)..

Seems to me like believers believe in the unknowable. And I don't just mean unknowable in any sense, even relatively, not just absolute knowledge. If something happens after we die there is no way of us possibly knowing while we're still alive.

And if our brain dies but some part of us lives on... is that really 'us' if our whole personality and all our memories have disintegrated? If we have past lives are they really 'our' lives if we have no memory of them? Similar sort of thing to me.

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(May 18, 2018 at 5:38 am)robvalue Wrote: It's not that these things don't need evidence, it's that there can't ever be any evidence for or against them because they are untestable/unfalsifiable. That's exactly how religion gets away with all this. As soon as it tries to step into the realm of the testable, it fails immediately.

So it all comes down to a reverse of the burden of proof. And a whole "You can't prove God doesn't exist" thing. Well of course we can't, because God is defined in such a way that his existence and nonexistence seem to be exactly identical.

Little Rik Wrote:

Jormungandr Wrote:Do people who experience NDEs have an irreversible cessation of heartbeat or breathing or brain function No they do not.  

Yes they do. Doctors declare these people dead

On top of that these people can see their dead body from above which it means that the consciousness is no more inside the body

Atheists always glorify science ( physical science of course ) but when this science contradict them they stupidly try to find some excuses that take them out their failure

You cannot be dead if you have only had a near death experience because nearly being dead and actually being dead are not the same

No NDE can be scientifically investigated as it is only a single person interpretation so there is no objective means of determining its claim

And all of science is physical because it is the study of observable phenomena and nothing else

(May 22, 2018 at 1:07 pm)surreptitious57 Wrote:

Little Rik Wrote:Yes they do. Doctors declare these people dead

On top of that these people can see their dead body from above which it means that the consciousness is no more inside the body

Atheists always glorify science ( physical science of course ) but when this science contradict them they stupidly try to find some excuses that take them out their failure

You cannot be dead if you have only had a near death experience because nearly being dead and actually being dead are not the same

No NDE can be scientifically investigated as it is only a single person interpretation so there is no objective means of determining its claim

And all of science is physical because it is the study of observable phenomena and nothing else

There are a lot of fools that really believe that physical science is the panacea for all real knowledge.
Unfortunately for these fools that is not the case.

Everything in this universe move and change all the time.  
Physical science try his best to follow these changes and that is ok., but that is not enough because not everything can be understood by this science.
This is something that you will understand later on.  
In the meantime please note that as the consciousness leave the body that is death so people who saw their body from above saw their dead body.
You can't be alive without your consciousness.
It would be a vehicle without the driver.
It would be just a piece of metal.
With the driver gone the vehicle has no life in it.

For atheists must be very very hard to digest the fact that life can come back in a lifeless body and life pop up once again.
It would wreck a life time of beliefs.
Beliefs in pure and simple BS.  

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(May 23, 2018 at 12:00 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(May 19, 2018 at 11:20 am)Little Rik Wrote: Why speculations?
Even a demented fool knows that physical science is confined within the physical corral therefore is unable to understand what lie outside such as the consciousness but I guess you never thought about that yog, did you?
That of course make you foolish believe that vibrations are not alive.
Wrong once again.

Quote:spec·u·la·tion
noun

   1.     the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence.

(May 19, 2018 at 11:20 am)Little Rik Wrote: Because I do practice it and because the practice open the superconscious within where the real knowledge lie.  

What you need is independent corroboration.  What you don't have is independent corroboration.  What you have is "a belief."  A belief by itself means nothing.

You're just another religious twat with claims that you can't back up.

(May 19, 2018 at 11:20 am)Little Rik Wrote: Yes they do.
Doctors declare these people dead.
On top of that these people can see their dead body from above which it means that the consciousness is no more inside the body.

That is bizarre yog.
Atheists always glorify science (physical science of course) but when this science contradict them they stupidly try to find some excuses that take them out their failure.
Shame on you yog.  

The funniest part of this is that you actually believe that you're correct!  No, neither a doctor's declaration nor an OBE necessarily entail the person has died.



Apparently the word 'near' in near death experience wasn't a clue to you.   Do you even know what the word 'irreversible' means?

(May 19, 2018 at 11:20 am)Little Rik Wrote: By spitting in the dish that feed you you will not go very far yog.
Spirituality is what keep the universe and all the creature alive.
At the moment you live in a fantasy dream so you still do not know this golden truth but in any case if I would be in your shoes so to speak I would be very very careful before you engage in these foolish comments.    

More moronic drivel from the king of moronic drivel.  I notice you didn't answer the questions.  Probably for the best, anyway.

(May 19, 2018 at 11:20 am)Little Rik Wrote: Oh, my God.  
I am so so sorry that I took advantage of your patience.
I didn't know that you gave me six weeks.
I thought I had until the next Christmas.  

Oh, by the way I am still waiting to see your evidence that the consciousness is a product of the brain and that life end up with the physical death. (among of course all other atheists dogmas)  

You've already seen it, but what else can we expect from a moron like you.  If you had any evidence for your beliefs, you'd have presented it by now.

My previous answer to Surr cover all your mad drivel.

In the meantime can you please reply to my questions such as why the consciousness should be a product of the brain and why  
the death of the body should mean our death?

Is until Christmas enough time for you to answer these questions?
If you really need more time I can extend the time.
After all LR is here to help.
Isn't it yog?  

The best and worst theist arguments are identical in their bestness and worstness.

When everything is 0% accurate it's all equally the best and worst.

(May 11, 2018 at 8:13 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: Since  the following dogmas are foundational to your "system," it is obvious that you practice a religion.

1. Vibrations are alive/conscious.
2. Energy is alive/conscious.
3. Inanimate matter is conscious.
4. Life cannot come from non-life.

Let us deal a bit at the time as the page is getting full so let us now deal with these last points.

As usual you vandalize my words and that is rather evil if done on purpose or stupid if done without understanding what i said.

1) I didn't say that inanimate matter is conscious.
I rather say that matter has got consciousness or it is made of consciousness and this consciousness is in a latent form which means that matter can not be aware of who she is.

To say ............Inanimate matter is conscious.......is like to say that matter can express herself which is not the case.

2) The same goes for vibrations.

Also vibrations like everything in this universe has life in it.
Unlike matter which can not express herself because she reach the very bottom of creation vibrations express themselves with the movement and movement means life.
If on the other hand you may believe that this movement is cused by the creator then you can well kiss goodby to all atheistic ideas.
In any case you fail badly.

3) Energy - consciousness are the two sides of the same sheet.
One can not exist without the other.
Also energy move so like vibrations must have life in it.
The atheist idea that some sort of energy within the universe keep the system going and going is void of any evidence while the idea that energy has life in it make 100% sense.
Physical science sooner or later will come to this conclusion.

4) Life in this universe always come from life.
This is science yog.

There is no such a thing as anything void of life.
Even matter has life in it even if it is in a latent form.  

I think I might see where riks circuit got fried. Since all chocolate comes from trees...trees must be made of chocolate.