(June 3, 2018 at 8:59 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: Well, at least you've rationalized a way to sleep at night.

I hope you haven't rationalized a way not to sleep! I wonder how many people worry about shit they can't possible control? Yet, you have people in your immediate vicinity that can use your great love! Are they not more important than starving children in Africa? Because we can't help the people in Africa does not mean anyone is useless! Stick closer to home: there is plenty of need!

---

(June 3, 2018 at 11:56 pm)The Industrial Atheist Wrote:

(June 3, 2018 at 7:06 pm)Haipule Wrote: Nice start! "Believing" in God is only for the completely useless! Glad your being useful! However, full usefulness requires a trust in a Father so you can have huge balls! My Father is BIG! So are my balls!

I never said believers were useless. I couldn't be a functional adult, especially in the United States, if I thought all believers were useless. I think they'd still be useful if they didn't believe though. Although I hate to put people in categories of "usefull" and 'useless." Even people that I don't like, and that tends to be for very good reason, are useful to somebody.

But, I'm happy with my balls. I don't need to bounce around on them like that episode of South Park.

South Park: I remember that episode of South Park and putting the balls in the microwave, so that they grow huge, and bounce around on there Sit n Bounce, bouncy balls so that they can be prescribed medical marijuana!

The bible does not designate who is a "believer" and an "unbeliever". But does teach you to recognize the useful and the useless. As a useful person, be wary of useless crap whom will suck you dry! I once met one of the most successful "pinchers" of all time standing at a freeway entrance with a cleverly written sign. He made 85k a year--part-time!

(June 3, 2018 at 7:51 pm)Haipule Wrote:

(June 3, 2018 at 7:15 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: The starving children in Africa are glad you are doing well and send their regards.

You are assuming the lie that God is, somehow, omni everything. The bible does not indicate that God is "Omni" anything!

People often ask, "Why do bad things happen to good people"? It is a stupid question because Jesus said, "Why do you call me 'good'? 'Only my Father in the sky(authoritative position) is good'".

So, they will have a tough time explaining what "good" means.

Jesus also said, "When did I know you?". If He said that He does not know them: then how is He omni?

Therefore, as the bible plainly states, "God knows the ones whom are His! Therefore, He doesn't know the rest! So, whatever happens to them is the product of worldly thinking! NOT God!

Do you want a different God? There ain't one!

So why do you believe in Yahweh, the God of the Hebrews and the God of the armies?  Are you a Hebrew?

(June 3, 2018 at 7:00 pm)Haipule Wrote:

(June 3, 2018 at 5:49 pm)Kit Wrote: Life is best enjoyed without belief in god.

I do NOT "believe" in God. I trust Him to be the solid ground of the invisible bridge I walk on called "life". A journey of epic proportions!

Well, what do you believe God to be or are you content to leave it as an unresolvable mystery?  If you're down with the mystery, would you be down with an entirely natural God rooted in your noggin - a god that knew the contents of your heart but far from omniscient, a God that creates the possibility of your existence as you find it but no, not the entire cosmos.  See if you could scale back the extravagant claims I at least would have no beef with a natural god.

---

(June 3, 2018 at 8:59 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: Well, at least you've rationalized a way to sleep at night.

I'm pretty sure that is the job of the massive doses of margaritas he takes.

(June 3, 2018 at 5:45 pm)Haipule Wrote: Post-reform religitards speak of "salvation" as if it is the most important thing complete with a "Gospel". However, as one who can actually read the autographed languages of the bible, no such thing exists!

well I guess you can't read the text in question as well as you think you can, or your not educated enough to provide the supporting evidence that makes a wild claim plausible. The first thing an intellectually honest person does when making a claim like this is to provide source material from a liget well known source primary or secondary source. So fa you provide smoke and mirrors with a claim to read a dead language as if it were pig latin.

Quote:The Word of God was not given us to achieve "salvation". Rather, it is a gift of God that we might have life, right here, right now, and that more abundant. That is deliverance and not "salvation".

Book chapter and verse please.
the whole of John 3 would be the words of Christ directly contradicting what you have said here.

Quote:The English word "salvation" is a borrowed French word transliterated from the Latin salvationem. IOW's, sOtEria is not translated and it meaning has been lost and reinvented.

The etymology of the english word here is moot sport. as Pointed out by By Jesus Himself in John 3 as the whole chapter speaks to the spiritual salvation/being saved from Hell/second death and be given eternal life. it does not matter what the french word is what is being described in the Koine greek is a process of being born of the Holy Spirit to escape Judgement and the death of the Soul in Hell to go onto eternal life. So whether the word you choose is salvation or deliverance or cubblesvagon the process being described in the Gospel of Christ is a process we deem salvation because it saves us from the destruction of Hell.

Quote:The word translated as "salvation" is sOtEria and means: deliverance and is very general and non-specific: preservation, deliverance, rescue, kept safe and sound, made whole, etc. IOW's, what ever is necessary for the moment

Actually t means:
σωτηρία
Transliteration
sōtēria
Pronunciation
sō-tā-rē'-ä (Key)
Part of Speech
feminine noun
Root Word (Etymology)
Feminine of a derivative of σωτήρ (G4990) as (properly, abstract) noun
Textus Receptus Occurrences — 45x in 3 unique form(s)
σωτηρία — 8x
σωτηρίαν — 17x
σωτηρίας — 20x
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: View Entry

TDNT Reference: 7:965,1132

KJV Translation Count — Total: 45x
The KJV translates Strong's G4991 in the following manner: salvation (40x), the (one) be saved (1x), deliver (with G1325) (1x), health (1x), saving (1x), that (one) be saved (with G1519) (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
deliverance, preservation, safety, salvation

deliverance from the molestation of enemies

in an ethical sense, that which concludes to the soul's safety or salvation

of Messianic salvation

salvation as the present possession of all true Christians

future salvation, the sum of benefits and blessings which the Christians, redeemed from all earthly ills, will enjoy after the visible return of Christ from heaven in the consummated and eternal kingdom of God.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex...4991&t=KJV

Quote: God also informs us that He want's us to have peace which is the Greek word eirEnE and literally means: the absents of strife. However, when strife happens, deliverance will follow. So, it is a matter of trust and not a belief system. 

εἰρήνη
Transliteration
eirēnē
Pronunciation
ā-rā'-nā (Key)
Part of Speech
feminine noun
Root Word (Etymology)
Probably from a primary verb eiro (to join)
Textus Receptus Occurrences — 92x in 6 unique form(s)
Εἰρήνη — 8x
εἰρήνη — 32x
εἰρήνῃ — 8x
Εἰρήνην — 2x
εἰρήνην — 23x
εἰρήνης — 19x
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: View Entry

TDNT Reference: 2:400,207

KJV Translation Count — Total: 92x
The KJV translates Strong's G1515 in the following manner: peace (89x), one (1x), rest (1x), quietness (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
a state of national tranquillity

exemption from the rage and havoc of war

peace between individuals, i.e. harmony, concord

security, safety, prosperity, felicity, (because peace and harmony make and keep things safe and prosperous)

of the Messiah's peace

the way that leads to peace (salvation)

of Christianity, the tranquil state of a soul assured of its salvation through Christ, and so fearing nothing from God and content with its earthly lot, of whatsoever sort that is

the blessed state of devout and upright men after death

As you can see the Koine' word for peace is a lttle more coplex than you would have us to believe..

Can you see how you have to cherry pick a defination out of this grou of definations to make your narritive valid? can you not see that there is room for your interpretation and how the word peace is used is a more broad biblical sense?

Quote:That pretty much sums up my anecdotal life. Dude! I'm not "lucky"!


So that is my evidence that God truly exists--YOUR LIFE!

If you don't like your life: then do something different!

God promised you, in the pages of the bible, life, and that more abundant even beyond your wildest dreams!


I would not tell you this if I hadn't experienced it for myself!

From one who has truly experienced a more abundant life I know it is not free. this life more abundant is liken to the life of Joseph who still was a slave under pharaoh, than the freedom to do as you will. i have more than I could ever hope to have asked for, but these 'things' are not trophies but responsibilities I must use and invest in.

I do hope you an come up with some actual scripture to back your position and maybe a few references rather than putting us in a position to simply take your word.

(June 4, 2018 at 11:45 am)Drich Wrote:

(June 3, 2018 at 5:45 pm)Haipule Wrote: Post-reform religitards speak of "salvation" as if it is the most important thing complete with a "Gospel". However, as one who can actually read the autographed languages of the bible, no such thing exists!

well I guess you can't read the text in question as well as you think you can, or your not educated enough to provide the supporting evidence that makes a wild claim plausible. The first thing an intellectually honest person does when making a claim like this is to provide source material from a liget well known source primary or secondary source. So fa you provide smoke and mirrors with a claim to read a dead language as if it were pig latin.

Quote:The Word of God was not given us to achieve "salvation". Rather, it is a gift of God that we might have life, right here, right now, and that more abundant. That is deliverance and not "salvation".

Book chapter and verse please.
the whole of John 3 would be the words of Christ directly contradicting what you have said here.

Quote:The English word "salvation" is a borrowed French word transliterated from the Latin salvationem. IOW's, sOtEria is not translated and it meaning has been lost and reinvented.

The etymology of the english word here is moot sport. as Pointed out by By Jesus Himself in John 3 as the whole chapter speaks to the spiritual salvation/being saved from Hell/second death and be given eternal life. it does not matter what the french word is what is being described in the Koine greek is a process of being born of the Holy Spirit to escape Judgement and the death of the Soul in Hell to go onto eternal life. So whether the word you choose is salvation or deliverance or cubblesvagon the process being described in the Gospel of Christ is a process we deem salvation because it saves us from the destruction of Hell.

Quote:The word translated as "salvation" is sOtEria and means: deliverance and is very general and non-specific: preservation, deliverance, rescue, kept safe and sound, made whole, etc. IOW's, what ever is necessary for the moment

Actually t means:
σωτηρία
Transliteration
sōtēria
Pronunciation
sō-tā-rē'-ä (Key)
Part of Speech
feminine noun
Root Word (Etymology)
Feminine of a derivative of σωτήρ (G4990) as (properly, abstract) noun
Textus Receptus Occurrences — 45x in 3 unique form(s)
σωτηρία — 8x
σωτηρίαν — 17x
σωτηρίας — 20x
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: View Entry

TDNT Reference: 7:965,1132

KJV Translation Count — Total: 45x
The KJV translates Strong's G4991 in the following manner: salvation (40x), the (one) be saved (1x), deliver (with G1325) (1x), health (1x), saving (1x), that (one) be saved (with G1519) (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
deliverance, preservation, safety, salvation

deliverance from the molestation of enemies

in an ethical sense, that which concludes to the soul's safety or salvation

of Messianic salvation

salvation as the present possession of all true Christians

future salvation, the sum of benefits and blessings which the Christians, redeemed from all earthly ills, will enjoy after the visible return of Christ from heaven in the consummated and eternal kingdom of God.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex...4991&t=KJV

Quote: God also informs us that He want's us to have peace which is the Greek word eirEnE and literally means: the absents of strife. However, when strife happens, deliverance will follow. So, it is a matter of trust and not a belief system. 

εἰρήνη
Transliteration
eirēnē
Pronunciation
ā-rā'-nā (Key)
Part of Speech
feminine noun
Root Word (Etymology)
Probably from a primary verb eiro (to join)
Textus Receptus Occurrences — 92x in 6 unique form(s)
Εἰρήνη — 8x
εἰρήνη — 32x
εἰρήνῃ — 8x
Εἰρήνην — 2x
εἰρήνην — 23x
εἰρήνης — 19x
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: View Entry

TDNT Reference: 2:400,207

KJV Translation Count — Total: 92x
The KJV translates Strong's G1515 in the following manner: peace (89x), one (1x), rest (1x), quietness (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
a state of national tranquillity

exemption from the rage and havoc of war

peace between individuals, i.e. harmony, concord

security, safety, prosperity, felicity, (because peace and harmony make and keep things safe and prosperous)

of the Messiah's peace

the way that leads to peace (salvation)

of Christianity, the tranquil state of a soul assured of its salvation through Christ, and so fearing nothing from God and content with its earthly lot, of whatsoever sort that is

the blessed state of devout and upright men after death

As you can see the Koine' word for peace is a lttle more coplex than you would have us to believe..

Can you see how you have to cherry pick a defination out of this grou of definations to make your narritive valid? can you not see that there is room for your interpretation and how the word peace is used is a more broad biblical sense?

Quote:That pretty much sums up my anecdotal life. Dude! I'm not "lucky"!


So that is my evidence that God truly exists--YOUR LIFE!

If you don't like your life: then do something different!

God promised you, in the pages of the bible, life, and that more abundant even beyond your wildest dreams!


I would not tell you this if I hadn't experienced it for myself!

From one who has truly experienced a more abundant life I know it is not free. this life more abundant is liken to the life of Joseph who still was a slave under pharaoh, than the freedom to do as you will. i have more than I could ever hope to have asked for, but these 'things' are not trophies but responsibilities I must use and invest in.

I do hope you an come up with some actual scripture to back your position and maybe a few references rather than putting us in a position to simply take your word.

K'den! Give me some time like, next weekend I have already translated John 3 but, you are being specific. Your line: "The etymology of the english word here is moot sport. as Pointed out by By Jesus Himself in John 3 as the whole chapter speaks to the spiritual salvation/being saved from Hell/second death and be given eternal life. it does not matter what the french word is what is being described in the Koine greek is a process of being born of the Holy Spirit to escape Judgement and the death of the Soul in Hell to go onto eternal life. So whether the word you choose is salvation or deliverance or cubblesvagon the process being described in the Gospel of Christ is a process we deem salvation because it saves us from the destruction of Hell."

These lies I will focus on.

(June 4, 2018 at 11:45 am)Drich Wrote:

(June 3, 2018 at 5:45 pm)Haipule Wrote: Post-reform religitards speak of "salvation" as if it is the most important thing complete with a "Gospel". However, as one who can actually read the autographed languages of the bible, no such thing exists!

well I guess you can't read the text in question as well as you think you can, or your not educated enough to provide the supporting evidence that makes a wild claim plausible. The first thing an intellectually honest person does when making a claim like this is to provide source material from a liget well known source primary or secondary source. So fa you provide smoke and mirrors with a claim to read a dead language as if it were pig latin.

Quote:The Word of God was not given us to achieve "salvation". Rather, it is a gift of God that we might have life, right here, right now, and that more abundant. That is deliverance and not "salvation".

Book chapter and verse please.
the whole of John 3 would be the words of Christ directly contradicting what you have said here.

Quote:The English word "salvation" is a borrowed French word transliterated from the Latin salvationem. IOW's, sOtEria is not translated and it meaning has been lost and reinvented.

The etymology of the english word here is moot sport. as Pointed out by By Jesus Himself in John 3 as the whole chapter speaks to the spiritual salvation/being saved from Hell/second death and be given eternal life. it does not matter what the french word is what is being described in the Koine greek is a process of being born of the Holy Spirit to escape Judgement and the death of the Soul in Hell to go onto eternal life. So whether the word you choose is salvation or deliverance or cubblesvagon the process being described in the Gospel of Christ is a process we deem salvation because it saves us from the destruction of Hell.

Quote:The word translated as "salvation" is sOtEria and means: deliverance and is very general and non-specific: preservation, deliverance, rescue, kept safe and sound, made whole, etc. IOW's, what ever is necessary for the moment

Actually t means:
σωτηρία
Transliteration
sōtēria
Pronunciation
sō-tā-rē'-ä (Key)
Part of Speech
feminine noun
Root Word (Etymology)
Feminine of a derivative of σωτήρ (G4990) as (properly, abstract) noun
Textus Receptus Occurrences — 45x in 3 unique form(s)
σωτηρία — 8x
σωτηρίαν — 17x
σωτηρίας — 20x
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: View Entry

TDNT Reference: 7:965,1132

KJV Translation Count — Total: 45x
The KJV translates Strong's G4991 in the following manner: salvation (40x), the (one) be saved (1x), deliver (with G1325) (1x), health (1x), saving (1x), that (one) be saved (with G1519) (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
deliverance, preservation, safety, salvation

deliverance from the molestation of enemies

in an ethical sense, that which concludes to the soul's safety or salvation

of Messianic salvation

salvation as the present possession of all true Christians

future salvation, the sum of benefits and blessings which the Christians, redeemed from all earthly ills, will enjoy after the visible return of Christ from heaven in the consummated and eternal kingdom of God.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex...4991&t=KJV

Quote: God also informs us that He want's us to have peace which is the Greek word eirEnE and literally means: the absents of strife. However, when strife happens, deliverance will follow. So, it is a matter of trust and not a belief system. 

εἰρήνη
Transliteration
eirēnē
Pronunciation
ā-rā'-nā (Key)
Part of Speech
feminine noun
Root Word (Etymology)
Probably from a primary verb eiro (to join)
Textus Receptus Occurrences — 92x in 6 unique form(s)
Εἰρήνη — 8x
εἰρήνη — 32x
εἰρήνῃ — 8x
Εἰρήνην — 2x
εἰρήνην — 23x
εἰρήνης — 19x
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: View Entry

TDNT Reference: 2:400,207

KJV Translation Count — Total: 92x
The KJV translates Strong's G1515 in the following manner: peace (89x), one (1x), rest (1x), quietness (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
a state of national tranquillity

exemption from the rage and havoc of war

peace between individuals, i.e. harmony, concord

security, safety, prosperity, felicity, (because peace and harmony make and keep things safe and prosperous)

of the Messiah's peace

the way that leads to peace (salvation)

of Christianity, the tranquil state of a soul assured of its salvation through Christ, and so fearing nothing from God and content with its earthly lot, of whatsoever sort that is

the blessed state of devout and upright men after death

As you can see the Koine' word for peace is a lttle more coplex than you would have us to believe..

Can you see how you have to cherry pick a defination out of this grou of definations to make your narritive valid? can you not see that there is room for your interpretation and how the word peace is used is a more broad biblical sense?

Quote:That pretty much sums up my anecdotal life. Dude! I'm not "lucky"!


So that is my evidence that God truly exists--YOUR LIFE!

If you don't like your life: then do something different!

God promised you, in the pages of the bible, life, and that more abundant even beyond your wildest dreams!


I would not tell you this if I hadn't experienced it for myself!

From one who has truly experienced a more abundant life I know it is not free. this life more abundant is liken to the life of Joseph who still was a slave under pharaoh, than the freedom to do as you will. i have more than I could ever hope to have asked for, but these 'things' are not trophies but responsibilities I must use and invest in.

I do hope you an come up with some actual scripture to back your position and maybe a few references rather than putting us in a position to simply take your word.

You can point to me 1 lexicon. However, I use 6. I take them all down to my basement and torcher them! Because I want the truth! I want the most simplest understanding of a word, within it's broader and immediate context, with the framework of the grammatical inflection actually penned by the author. So that I can simply understand those words as the illiterate fisherman and farmer did--and kick some ass as they did!

All Greek words are a root with alphabet soup, prefixed, or suffixed. If you don't know the "alphabet soup", you don't know jack of what you are talking about! 


One of the first words you used is "spiritual". Make me puke! That word is the adjective form of pneuma which is pneumatikos. pneuma can refer to living breath or, the intellect breathed into you from an exterior source.

The English word transliterated from pneuma, as an adjective is pneumatic, and can refer to anything such as a hammer, or drill; that works from compressed air, or gas!

That word pneuma(pneO = breath--blast of the nostrils + -ma which views the word from it's state or effect) is erroneously translated for you as, "spirit". When it ALWAYS refers to an external life breath or, external intellect! ALWAYS!!! And often simply refers to written Scripture which is exterior to you as opposed to psuchE(natural breath/intellect that you were born with) which is internal. And for some crazy ass reason, the translators thought that "soul", was a good translation of psuchE which has a verb form which is psuchO! Really, does the "soul" have a verb form?

Our English word "spirit" is transliterated from the Latin "spiritus" which means: breath. Jerome translated both ruwack(Hebrew) and pneuma(Greek)  correctly as "spiritus" into Latin and also means breath as breathing life or, intellect--and NEVER "spirit"!

So you have been taught every erroneous lie about "spirit" and not one of those asshole ever taught you to just simply breath! 


Whereas, I am a pneumatic man(pneumatikos--adjective) living according to the theopnustos = God-breathed Scriptures living life pneumatikOs(adverb), pneumatically according the pneuma breath of God which is the the God Breathed Scripture!


Wicked man that I am!

It’s a Christ-off! I’ve got no idea what you’re going on about, but this sure is exciting

It's all greek to me too Rob

---

I think the OP may have spent too much time with Dionysus though!

I'm sure God will be along any minute to clear this all up.

It's a parade of ignorance! Get out the party hats and bring on the dancing girls!