There are as many interpretations as there are schisms. So long as individuality exists, there will always be subjectively different interpretations because people tend to perceive things differently.

(July 15, 2018 at 5:15 pm)Haipule Wrote:

(July 15, 2018 at 1:33 pm)JairCrawford Wrote: Whew! Sounds like you've had some run ins with some of us crazy Pentecostals in the past! :B

The word pneuma has connections with the older Hebrew word ruwach which meant wind, breath, soul, and yes, spirit.

Actually, we have to look at every word that has to do with breathing in order to get the complete, simple as can be, understanding of the Word of God. We MUST keep in it's immediate and broader context and understand it's usage. These words include ruwack: neshamah: nephesh, pneuma: psuchE: aimE. As will as the adjectives which modify them and other words associated with the act of breathing. It is a major subject in Scripture.

Also Vital is to understand that the Word of God came to us from Hebrew to Aramaic to Greek to English. So, every imported thought must be brought forward. We cannot ignore the Hebrew words when we translate the Greek and we must not give these words an English only meaning and impose English thinking skill onto Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew thinking skills. 

If we do this then Jesus said, "I give you my life-breath" NOT that he gave God "His Spirit". It is simple and not catapult trajectory calculations.


The idea of "soul" and "spirit" was brought into human psychology through Aristotle(who was with Alexander the Great when he came to Jerusalem) who explained to the Jews about the material and immaterial of mankind as very little of the afterlife was mentioned at that time. Really? Aristotle? Did God choose Aristotle to teach His people? I think not! Well, they bought it hook, line and sinker!

It has been my privilege and honor to gather the information necessary to unravel that rat nested fishing reel! What a mess!

If you care to learn more you can read my eBook Wake Up Call: William McCoy where I deal with this subject in detail starting with the chapter: Breathing 101. I'll give you the first bit as I think it is funny:


 Breathing: 101
 

Attention pastor-teachers, (so called)evangelists, preachers and teachers of all kinds (and all those who assume they are just as smart). Did you-all skip the first grade? Because your-all so smart? Did your seminaries and professors say to you, “Let’s skip the first grade as it’s all about breathing and purity. ‘Let us go on to ‘Holy Spirit’, ‘spirits’ , ‘souls’, ‘sanctification’ and ‘eternal’ things and be ‘holy’ and ‘godly’ and leave the first grade behind”’?

Today I am your teacher and you are my disciple-student! Tomorrow I am your disciple once again but, today you are mine, and I’m going to take you back to the first grade; which you-all obviously skipped, being so damned smart!

 

 

psuchE

Hello boys and girls! Today we are going to learn about “breathing”. Does everybody know how to breathe? I see you are all breathing! Very, very good boys and girls. That type of breathing is called “psuchE” in the Greek Newer Testament(covenants). psuchE is a noun which refers to “natural breath”. “psuchO” is a verb which refers to the act of breathing that which is natural and breathing naturally, just as you’re all doing right now! Sometimes psuchO refers to breathing on something to cool it down like when you blow on a spoonful of hot soup. It is said, in the bible, to be “refreshing” like a cool breeze on a hot day! It is the same kind of breathing and breath your doggies and kitties do and have! It is sometimes used figuratively to refer to your natural and instinctive intellect as a natural breathing thinking person with a natural breath, instinct, intellect and life. The Word of God also tells us that psuchE also has the ability to discern; which is sometimes erroneously referred to as a “conscience”. Do you know that you do that type of breathing all the time without even trying? “psuchE” is usually translated in your bibles as “soul”.

Yes Alan, “Teacher, why do they translate “psuchE” as “soul”? Very good question Alan! Because someone said, hundreds and hundreds of years ago, that this type of breath is an immaterial part of man so they invented the word “soul” to mean an immaterial part of man and animals instead of being literal with the translation of that word which has been very confusing to us all. Whereas God says, “breath of life” and that the “life in mankind is in his nostrils”. Also, psuchE has a verb form and an adjective form which makes the word “soul” silly. Now let me show you a passage in the bible to show you what I mean.

 

Hyper-Literal: Yet [ ]natural-breath-production-man(adjective psuchikos from psuchE) not he-is-receiving(middle-passive) thee-all-things of-thee pneumatos(genitive of pneuma-breath, neuter) namely--of-thee God for (2)it-is (1)stupidity to-him-same (3-)and not he-is-able(acting upon himself) to-know that pneumatically(adverb, by the pneuma-breath of God) he(natural breathing man)-is-being-examined(to be investigated, examined, enquired into, scrutinized, sifted, questioned). Yet thee pneumatikos-man(adjective, a pneumatic man living in the production of the pneuma-breath of God, the God breathed Scripture and God breathed life) he-is-examining(to investigate, examine, enquire into, scrutinize, sift, question) indeed/truly all-things yet, him-same under(authority) of-no-man(no one) he-is-being-examined(to be investigated, examined, enquired into, scrutinized, sifted, questioned), For who-any? he(natural breathing man)-knows(to know, understand, perceive, have knowledge of)* mind [the character and nature]of-lord(delegated authority) who he(natural breathing man)-shall(in the future)-be-to-teach-one/to-instruct-one him-same(pneumatic-man)? Yet we-all (being pneumatic) mind [the character and nature]of-anointed(given destiny) we-all-are(and keep on)-possessing. 1 Cor 2:14-16

The passage in question uses pneuma, not psuche.  How you think that is an example of the use of psuche is beyond me.  Moreover, the passage in question only makes sense if you stretch the meaning of pneuma to mean "adjective, a pneumatic man living in the production of the pneuma-breath of God, the God breathed Scripture and God breathed life" which is basically synonymous with the word spiritual as it is normally translated. Your very own definition makes pneumatikos a mental or spiritual concept rather than a physical one to be associated with any concept of breath. You're working against yourself here.

(July 15, 2018 at 5:15 pm)Haipule Wrote:  
 

pneuma

 

“pneuma” is another type of breath which is not natural breath like psuchE. pneuma must be breathed into you before you can breathe it out! It can literally be translated as “breath-effect”. There is bad pneuma from the world and good pneuma from God. The bible calls good pneuma “holy” which simply means that it is pure being of God; separated a class from a class from any other breath, like a mouth-to-mouth kiss from God Himself! It figuratively refers to God breathing into you His very own intellect, including the God-breathed Scripture itself, as well as, life through study! Isn’t that exciting boy and girls to know that you can breathe the very breath of God! Breathing God’s breath, the pure pneuma, will clean and purify you. pneuma is usually translated in your bibles as “spirit” or “the Holy Spirit”.

 

Yes Billy, “Teacher, why do they translate pneuma as “spirit” or “the Holy Spirit”? Great question Billy! One of the many words which refer to breathing and breath in the Older Testament(covenants) Hebrew, translated into English as “spirit”, is “ruwack”. “ruwack” literally translated means: “living-breath”.

 

Many years ago, even before Jesus was born, many(70) great scholars of God’s word translated the Hebrew Scripture into the Greek. This is called the “Septuagint” or “LXX(70)”. It has been said that many of the writers of the Newer Testament(covenants), and even Jesus Himself, sometimes quoted or paraphrased the Septuagint. In the Septuagint they translated the word “ruwach” as “pneuma” which also means breath so there is no conflict.

 

Hundreds of years later they(Jerome) translated the Older and Newer Testament(covenants) from the original languages into Latin. In the Latin Vulgate bible they translate “ruwach” and “pneuma” by the Latin word “spiritus” which also means breathing so again, there is no conflict. But for some absolutely insane, crazy, unimaginable reason, when they translated the Greek and Hebrew into English, instead of properly translating pneuma and ruwach as breath, they instead transliterated the Latin “spiritus” as “spirit” into English! What a mess! So, for hundreds of years man has been inventing and reinventing a “spirit” of both man and God. They even invented the one God as a “Trinity” to justify their erroneous ignorance and rejection of the first grade biblical concept of breathing and call it “the unspoken truth”! Indeed, if God has not spoken it: how can it be truth?!

 

Now, isn’t that silly boys and girls? Indeed, if God is 100% and we try to divide Him by three we get 33.3%. Now, we cannot put Him back together again because the answer would be 99.9%! Silly, isn’t it!

 

Yes parent, “Now Bill, the ‘Doctrine of the Trinity’ is one of the basic tenets of our faith.” Fine then, go follow your magical “faith”. As for me, I will follow Jesus--THE LIVING WORD OF GOD!               

This is all a bunch of assertion based on nothing.  By applying Hitchens' razor, it all disappears.  "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."  If you have actual reasons for translating these words as you do, then present them.  Otherwise you can be dismissed.

(July 14, 2018 at 3:32 am)Haipule Wrote:

(July 13, 2018 at 1:07 am)Godscreated Wrote:

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if you can't prove there are contradictions then you haven't a leg to stand on and thus there is no contradictions.


That's a joke and you know it. I know some Christians know little about the Bible but all Christians realize the truth of scripture. I studied with many different Christians that could run circles around any atheist, I've seen it.


  No they were not , you are now trying to lie to give other atheist the wrong idea, but that's okay they as you will learn the truth one day. There is nothing wrong with the Bible it is the perfect spiritual book for those who want to live with God forever.

GC

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Truly you are kidding!? Living with God "Forever" will NEVER include "spirituality"! Get over that fact right now! There is NO such thing as "Spirit", "spirituality" or, "spiritual"!


Or, do you have a "spiritual" gift? Are you a "spiritual" person living a "spiritual" life? By the power of some man invented "Holy Spirit"? 

Give me a break! Give us all a break! We've been spoon fed that crap for ions! And it is all bullshit!

"Holy Spirit" my ASS! Really dude!

Do you really think that pneuma(noun) means: "Spirit? And, pneumatikos(adjective), means: "spiritual"? And, pneumatikOs(adverb) means, "spiritually"?

pneuma views: the breath of intellect from an exterior source(God, I.E., Scripture) which has an effect. That effect is supposed to conduct you into being pneumatic(Adjective: pneumatikos): a pneumatic(adjective) man(Scripture) living pneumatikOs(adverb: according to Scripture)!


Wow! Wasn't that simple?


I am NOT "spiritual"! I have NO "spiritual" gift! I never have, and I never will have need of such 1900yr old
complete  nonsense of a "Spirit filled" misled clergy! The Bible says NO such thing!!!

Yet, the road to the psycho ward is paved with such idiocy!

If you want to live forever with God: be His sheep and be useful In HIS faith, in HIS hope, in HIS love, employing HIS righteousness in the all-thing of your God given life! So that you can stand with Him in HIS glory! If you look good to others...then God looks good to others!

Keep harpin' about "spiritualty" and you will look like the shit of the clergy! God has better things for you! 

 You must not believe what the NT teaches if you believe what you posted to me. Some advice, you should act more like a man of God if you are going to attract anyone to search Him out. Your language is terrible not just to atheist but Christians alike and Paul told us to abstain from such language and Jesus taught that we should love our brothers and sisters and by the way you act here you do not do that.

GC

(July 14, 2018 at 1:57 am)Fake Messiah Wrote:

(July 14, 2018 at 12:19 am)Godscreated Wrote: Grow up and then read and study the Bible so you can at the least not embarrass yourself, what a dork.

GC

Except the "Matthew" is a book in the Bible and it says that the heaven will perish and you can't deny it which means you won't live forever *wah* *wah*

GC is not gonna live forever even according to his Bible nah nah nah nah  

I'm sure Drich will be along momentarily to show all us ignerunt sinnurs that yet ANOTHER plainly worded Bible verse REALLY means EXACTLY the opposite of what is written because Drich says so.

(July 14, 2018 at 1:57 am)Fake Messiah Wrote:

(July 14, 2018 at 12:19 am)Godscreated Wrote: Grow up and then read and study the Bible so you can at the least not embarrass yourself, what a dork.

GC

Except the "Matthew" is a book in the Bible and it says that the heaven will perish and you can't deny it which means you won't live forever *wah* *wah*

GC is not gonna live forever even according to his Bible nah nah nah nah  

 Still the dork I see.

GC

(July 15, 2018 at 8:34 pm)Kit Wrote: There are as many interpretations as there are schisms.  So long as individuality exists, there will always be subjectively different interpretations because people tend to perceive things differently.

You're committing heresy, the Lord God Almighty, Himself, says that He is NOT the author of confusion.

(July 16, 2018 at 1:03 am)vorlon13 Wrote:

(July 14, 2018 at 1:57 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: Except the "Matthew" is a book in the Bible and it says that the heaven will perish and you can't deny it which means you won't live forever *wah* *wah*

GC is not gonna live forever even according to his Bible nah nah nah nah  

I'm sure Drich will be along momentarily to show all us ignerunt sinnurs that yet ANOTHER plainly worded Bible verse REALLY means EXACTLY the opposite of what is written because Drich says so.

The problem with you and FM is that you cherry pick what you want instead of trying to understand what the Bible is really saying. God promises to create another heaven and earth after the sin struck one is destroyed.

GC

The flippity flop on John 19:17 was particularly egregious;

And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:


Clearly 'went forth' is the start of the trek and He went to Golgotha, the entire distance, bearing His cross. And Simon of Cyrene did NOT touch it in this account.

Far better for believers to not twist this Scripture by realizing the John crucifixion occurred on Maundy Thursday, and the Simon of Cyrene assisted lumber tote occurred on Good Friday during the SECOND crucifixion.


Don't have to run them Scriptures through the mangle at all this way.

(July 16, 2018 at 1:19 am)Godscreated Wrote:

(July 16, 2018 at 1:03 am)vorlon13 Wrote: I'm sure Drich will be along momentarily to show all us ignerunt sinnurs that yet ANOTHER plainly worded Bible verse REALLY means EXACTLY the opposite of what is written because Drich says so.

The problem with you and FM is that you cherry pick what you want instead of trying to understand what the Bible is really saying. God promises to create another heaven and earth after the sin struck one is destroyed.

GC

What the bible says... . . . o o ( )

What the bible really says.... . . . o o ( )

(July 16, 2018 at 1:33 am)Jörmungandr Wrote:

(July 16, 2018 at 1:19 am)Godscreated Wrote: The problem with you and FM is that you cherry pick what you want instead of trying to understand what the Bible is really saying. God promises to create another heaven and earth after the sin struck one is destroyed.

GC

What the bible says... . . . o o (   )        

What the bible really says.... . . . o o (   )

It's all up to Drich, He is the final arbiter of Gods Word.