(August 4, 2018 at 7:59 am)robvalue Wrote: Every bad thing I do to anyone must be justified then. I’m balancing the karmic equation, and since karma made me do all those things, I’m not accountable. That means I have a clean slate next round, so nothing bad should ever happen to me.

Leave those blue mushrooms alone Rob.
Too much daydream and expectations may lead to harsh disappointment once the reality appear.  

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(August 4, 2018 at 7:48 am)Khemikal Wrote:

(August 4, 2018 at 6:27 am)Little Rik Wrote: I see...........

Now I got a real problem khem.  
Now I got both you and your mate Rob that deserve the Nobel prize in physics.

What shell I do?  
To who shell I give the prize?  

You also nullify one more physic law that say that the positive and the negative are reality.   because they both exist and they both play a role in the universal equilibrium.  
Now thanks to your theory that these forces mean nothing everything goes into a brand new dimension.  

You are a genius mate.

If you want to talk about physics, make a physics thread.  Hindu revenge porn isn't physics, simpleton.

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction...............

Is this Hindu revenge or a physical law MR. simpleton?

(August 4, 2018 at 6:27 am)Little Rik Wrote:

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(August 4, 2018 at 6:14 am)Aroura Wrote: Yes, but the real question is, can you wield a lightsaber?

Gee, that is a real difficult question to answer.  

This is the highest of philosophy Aro.  
I never thought about it.  

Please give me some time to sort that out.  

Yes, that was clearly my goal in referencing lightsabers.  High philosophical discussion.  With you.

Also, please don't call me Aro.  You have not earned the right to give me a cute nickname.

(August 4, 2018 at 10:32 am)Aroura Wrote:

(August 4, 2018 at 6:27 am)Little Rik Wrote:

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Gee, that is a real difficult question to answer.  

This is the highest of philosophy Aro.  
I never thought about it.  

Please give me some time to sort that out.  

Yes, that was clearly my goal in referencing lightsabers.  High philosophical discussion.  With you.

Also, please don't call me Aro.  You have not earned the right to give me a cute nickname, Lil' Dik.

Fixed that for you with my bolded.

FW is pretty fucked when karma is controlling people to punish them for what they apparently did in "past lives".

(August 4, 2018 at 8:26 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(August 4, 2018 at 7:59 am)robvalue Wrote: Every bad thing I do to anyone must be justified then. I’m balancing the karmic equation, and since karma made me do all those things, I’m not accountable. That means I have a clean slate next round, so nothing bad should ever happen to me.

Leave those blue mushrooms alone Rob.
Too much daydream and expectations may lead to harsh disappointment once the reality appear.  

What in earth are you prattling about now? You, the FW/Karma guru of af just said the exact same thing...that if a person was usud to satisfy what another person deserved that person wouldn't  incur any karmic debt on account of that.   Would you like to retract that idiotic statement...now?  Or is it just that your dense insistence that all debts must be repayed, that people get what they karmicly deserve..isn't applicable when you realize how godammned stupid that is?

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Quote:For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction...............

Is this Hindu revenge or a physical law MR. simpleton?  

The above isn't karma.  If you want to make a thread about that..then do so, but lets not pretend to talk about something other than the moralizing hindu revenge force.

If I push a ball it will move forward..that doesn't mean that the ball deserves to move forward or that the ball may move backward depending on the amount of dogs I kicked. Get ahold of yourself..loon.

I guess karmic forces are measured in DK* instead of N.

*Dogs Kicked

So let's do some DK experiments...

Let's say someone is about to die, and karma has done its job. Their experiences in this life perfectly balance what they deserve from previous lives.

I happen to be nearby, with a stapler. I apparently have the choice of whether to start stapling them to the floor or not. If I do, then I've disrupted karma's plans. If karma forces me not to, then I don't have FW after all.

If whatever I do satisfies karma, then the whole system is broken.

(July 29, 2018 at 10:01 am)Little Rik Wrote:

(July 28, 2018 at 5:22 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: @Rik

Doesn't the Bhagavad Gita say something like "Action (ie karma) is merely the gunas acting upon the gunas, while men in their delusion think themselves the doers of an act" ??? The view being presented there seems counter to the idea of free will. But maybe I'm misinterpreting it or something. (I think I can go find the actual verse if you want. Unless, of course, your particular brand of yoga denounces the Gita or something.)

I don't think the idea of God works for or against the idea of free will. There are plenty of atheistic free willists out there. So I don't know where you got the idea that atheism = incompatibilism.

1) I never said that the FW is incompatible with atheism.
I rather said that most atheists hate the idea of FW so it is rather incompatible with atheists in general not with atheism.  

2) To understand the role of the gunas you first got to understand the two opposite forces always present in nature like the positive and negative, yin or yang and so on.

These two forces while are not present in lower form of life such as plants and animals that follow mother nature instinct are instead present in man (men and women of course).
While the positive force try to get you up (up spiritually speaking) the negative one try to push you back towards animal, plant or even matter life so forget for a moment about these gunas and instead try to understand  the low of positive and negative which is much much more important.  

So I located the verse:

Gita 3.2 Wrote:The bewildered spirit soul, under the influence of the three modes of material nature, thinks himself to be the doer of activities, which are in actuality carried out by nature.

https://asitis.com/3

How is this not hard incompatibilism/determinism? I am familiar with both metaphysical models. They say this: the will of a person is not "free will"... it is not a person's choice to do otherwise than he/she does. The will is bound by the laws of nature. It has causes outside of the human psyche, and because these causes are beyond a person's control, so too is a person's will beyond his control.

Unless you can show otherwise: the Bhagavad Gita preaches against free will. I've read the Gita several times with various commentaries/translations, so I should be able to follow any argument you put together.

(August 5, 2018 at 1:19 am)vulcanlogician Wrote:

(July 29, 2018 at 10:01 am)Little Rik Wrote: 1) I never said that the FW is incompatible with atheism.
I rather said that most atheists hate the idea of FW so it is rather incompatible with atheists in general not with atheism.  

2) To understand the role of the gunas you first got to understand the two opposite forces always present in nature like the positive and negative, yin or yang and so on.

These two forces while are not present in lower form of life such as plants and animals that follow mother nature instinct are instead present in man (men and women of course).
While the positive force try to get you up (up spiritually speaking) the negative one try to push you back towards animal, plant or even matter life so forget for a moment about these gunas and instead try to understand  the low of positive and negative which is much much more important.  

So I located the verse:

Gita 3.27 Wrote:The bewildered spirit soul, under the influence of the three modes of material nature, thinks himself to be the doer of activities, which are in actuality carried out by nature.

https://asitis.com/3

How is this not hard incompatibilism/determinism? I am familiar with both metaphysical models. They say this: the will of a person is not "free will"... it is not a person's choice to do otherwise than he/she does. The will is bound by the laws of nature. It has causes outside of the human psyche, and because these causes are beyond a person's control, so too is a person's will beyond his control.

Unless you can show otherwise: the Bhagavad Gita preaches against free will. I've read the Gita several times with various commentaries/translations, so I should be able to follow any argument you put together.

Wrong again VL.

Good or bad karma can pop up anytime even when you think that it is you that are in control with your FW.

Suppose you like someone.
You make some effort to conquer the heart of that person and the effort is successful.
At this stage you come to the conclusion that it is thanks to your effort that you are successful when in reality it is your positive karma that allow this.

If your karma would not have allowed that because you wouldn't deserve that particular success in this life then no matter as you would have tried.
You would not have succeeded so your free will to choose or do things depend on your karma and the karma is controlled by the supreme entity (according to my beliefs and yoga).

FW is there in every humans but also karma is there and also the supreme controller of this karma is there so all factors will have to be taken in account.

The will is bound by the laws of nature but what are these laws anyway?
It is all about karma.
That karma that allow or doesn't allow to give way to your FW.

The laws of nature are those who decide and these laws are bound by your good or bad karma and your karma is dealing with decisions taken with your FW in previous lives.

It sound all very complicated but once you understand the law of actions and reactions you also understand why your FW must deal with your karma before is really free to act.

The Bhagavad Gita does not preaches against free will otherwise there wouldn't be the karma itself.
Karma is caused by decisions taken with our FW so FW must be there.