Amusingly, that's not the case with -american- christians and muslims.  In the US, muslims ignore more of and are leaving their faith at an exponentially higher rate than christians..who are quietly becoming fanatics.

(August 3, 2018 at 11:38 am)Khemikal Wrote: Amusingly, that's not the case with -american- christians and muslims.  In the US, muslims ignore more of and are leaving their faith at an exponentially higher rate than christians..who are quietly becoming fanatics.

Oh really? That's interesting.

I do wonder how many American Christians are thirsting for a theocracy. I would describe some of the example we have on this forum as "tweeners". I think they desire a theocracy, but would run screaming for a policeman if they ever actually experienced one. They are totally unaware of how well secular society serves them.

It is interesting..isn;t it?  Especially since the two phenomena have a transparent interplay with each other.  American christendom is terrified of sharia law..and on the basis of that seek to fill that space with what they don;t realize to be their own sharia law so as to leave no room for the other (and ofc they would very much like it if there was no room left for the other person..as well)...and the grand irony of it all is that american muslims are here desperately escaping sharia and their religious backgrounds in so many ways.  

What american christendom imagines to be the experience of europe with immigration from islamic countries has scared the piss out of them..despite the fact that what they imagine to have happened largely has not..and within the relevant demographics as they are european culture has utterly failed to assimilate in the brisk and sometimes tragic way that american culture has shown such an aptitude for.

(July 31, 2018 at 3:11 pm)purplepurpose Wrote: USSR killed a lot of their own people. USA tortures people in Guantanamo. Arabs have their own shit. And what's the point of "smelling that tragic shit"?

The states who committed these crimes weren't motivated by religion.
For those who were tortured in this US military base. Maybe some of perpetrators were motivated by religion but not United States of America itself.

The Muslims who commit terrorist attack are motivated by religion. (The majority of Muslims aren't terrorists but many are).
Many verses (Arabic : آيات - Transcription in English : Ayah - Meaning : evidence , sign or miracle) in the Quran can be interpreted as calling to commit attacks (The average Muslim didn't read or listened the Qur'an).

Wikiislam that is a wiki made by people who apostatised of Islam (For the majority of members of this website) listed some parts of Islamic literature calling to violence  : https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Critical_Anal...e_in_Islam

An article from the same website about Islam and violence : https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Violence

(August 3, 2018 at 10:03 am)Abaddon_ire Wrote:

(August 3, 2018 at 7:53 am)purplepurpose Wrote: I didn't know as much as I should about OT rules before posting here. Old testament rules sounds familiar to Nazi Germany. The death sentence for apostasy and constant and intense propaganda of afterlife punishment from the really young age sounds like hell on earth. It's like a really long mental torture.

And the amazing part is that there are still a lot of Arabs who like Sharia Law.

OT rules? The NT endorses them too. Christianity makes a huge palaver about a "New Covenant", but the NT insists that the OT rules still apply, every single one of the 613 mitzvot. And besides, in the middle of the mitzvah are the ten commandments. Chuck out the OT and goodbye Ten Commandments. Aha, the apologist will say, our boy jesus endorsed those ten in the NT, checkmate. Actually he didnt. According to the bible he endorsed exactly 5 of them. Your homework is to find out which 5 he endorsed specifically and which 5 he left out. Then tell us why.

The only New Testament passage I'm aware of that says the 613 mitzvot apply is that one in Matthew. The rest of the NT, however, depicts the opposite, up and to depicting Jesus directly opposing and/or breaking certain laws.

Good point on the Ten Commandments though. And I will take up that initiative to find out which five He endorsed.

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(August 1, 2018 at 4:19 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: 2.  Jesus says that disobedient children should be killed.

Which verse? Was He quoting OT laws?

(August 8, 2018 at 8:37 pm)JairCrawford Wrote: The only New Testament passage I'm aware of that says the 613 mitzvot apply is that one in Matthew. The rest of the NT, however, depicts the opposite, up and to depicting Jesus directly opposing and/or breaking certain laws.

You reckon "jesus" just whiffed it on that one....what..was he drunk?

...Or maybe "matthew", jew that he was, was a liar?

Decisions decisions.

(August 9, 2018 at 12:49 am)Khemikal Wrote:

(August 8, 2018 at 8:37 pm)JairCrawford Wrote: The only New Testament passage I'm aware of that says the 613 mitzvot apply is that one in Matthew. The rest of the NT, however, depicts the opposite, up and to depicting Jesus directly opposing and/or breaking certain laws.

You reckon "jesus" just whiffed it on that one....what..was he drunk?

...Or maybe "matthew", jew that he was, was a liar?

Decisions decisions.

The Matthew passage is one I've been meaning to research more. I think most Christians interpret the statement "until heaven and earth pass away" as meaning until the new covenant. But admittedly that does seem to wash over the core of the text a bit.

But the atomic bomb is an "infedel" trademark.
When the "Kuffar" get angry; they fart radiations at your people.

The crazy motherfuckers even drop chemicals and white phosphorus as an appetizer before the big bomb !

Taking all Muslims for the sins of the Saudi regime is just a low act. You know that the one's who did 9/11 were Saudies, so let's blame Saudies, let's blame that fucked up regime instead of generalizing on all Muslims. Some of us Muslims view Saudi Arabia as an enemy; btw.

From what I'm seeing, Europe and the U.S have favored Saudies over Canadians. In every council that exposes Saudi Arabia, European and American payed-to politicians jump in to defend the terrorists.

The problem is not Islam. The problem is Saudi Arabia and the corrupt politicians in Europe and the U.S .

(August 9, 2018 at 6:48 pm)JairCrawford Wrote:

(August 9, 2018 at 12:49 am)Khemikal Wrote: You reckon "jesus" just whiffed it on that one....what..was he drunk?

...Or maybe "matthew", jew that he was, was a liar?

Decisions decisions.

The Matthew passage is one I've been meaning to research more. I think most Christians interpret the statement "until heaven and earth pass away" as meaning until the new covenant. But admittedly that does seem to wash over the core of the text a bit.

So, how's that been going?  Find out anything that interests you?  Particularly, have you found some explanation for this divergence that is more efficient as an explanation than either the author's religious proclivities or intended audience as to why he would tell us that "jesus" said this?

(August 14, 2018 at 6:55 am)Khemikal Wrote:

(August 9, 2018 at 6:48 pm)JairCrawford Wrote: The Matthew passage is one I've been meaning to research more. I think most Christians interpret the statement "until heaven and earth pass away" as meaning until the new covenant. But admittedly that does seem to wash over the core of the text a bit.

So, how's that been going?  Find out anything that interests you?  Particularly, have you found some explanation for this divergence that is more efficient as an explanation than either the author's religious proclivities or intended audience as to why he would tell us that "jesus" said this?

The past few weeks have been busy for me but this is definitely something I want to do some digging on. It's interesting for sure.

I know that the Christian argument is that He was referring to the Decalogue but that's not what a Jewish Rabbi of the time was referring to when they said Mosaic Law. I imagine some argue that "until Heaven and Earth pass away" was an apocalyptic expression that's true meaning transpired at the cross and resurrection. Problem is that is a bit of a stretch/reach. I mean, could I accept that from a spiritual standpoint and as something greater than comprehension? Yes. But that doesn't really answer the question, nor is it very convincing to counter a skeptical viewpoint at all.