@ the "reading between the lines" bit.  Dude, you flat out told me you have anxiety and are acting on it.  You described the insecurity you feel in your business being one bad hiring decision away from disaster.  You have repeatedly referenced both your own identity and the identity politics you think the left is doing to that identity.  This is all swirling around a single object of fixation that may not actually exist.

I don't have to read between any lines there.

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(August 16, 2018 at 7:43 am)bennyboy Wrote: I'd argue that the PC left (and I'm not talking about the politically left who support workers' rights, choice about abortion, and so on, but the meme-mongers specifically of PC), are ALL morally weak, and that in their weakness, they gravitate toward a world view that not only provides them with a convenient scapegoat, but which re-frames cowardice as bravery, increasing the great pleasure they take in smelling their own farts.

I might even argue that the hostility is intrinsic to the PC left because they DEFINE themselves in terms of their supposed oppression of the big bad white man.  Bad grades?  Fucking white guys.  Can't hold a job?  The system is rigged by the patriarchy.  Don't have a fucking doctor's note?  Asking where I've been is an ongoing infringement of my civil liberties by the Fucking Man.

Take away that target, and what's left?  Just a bunch of intellectual mediocrities with little ambition and less ability, and their intense discomfort with mirrors.

See..a moment ago it was a couple of low character individuals.

I can easily agree that those people exist..and that they're endlessly creative in finding ways to game anything that can be gamed..but you've now gone back to telling me how the PC left is morally weak.

How do we get from the fact that assholes exist.....to your appraisal of the pc left? Why do you think that the pc left blames bad grades on white guys? Why do you think that the pc left blames someones poor work ethic on white guys?

The system is definitely rigged by the patriarchy, I can see why you think the left thinks that..they do. The right also thinks this..they just think it's a good thing. It's traditional. It's "worked" for millenia.

Doctors note....?

(August 16, 2018 at 7:45 am)Khemikal Wrote: I can easily agree that those people exist..and that they're endlessly creative in finding ways to game anything that can be gamed..but you've now gone back to telling me how the PC left is morally weak.

How do we get from the fact that assholes exist.....to your appraisal of the pc left?

It's simple. "Correctness" requires a context. What is correctness in the context of political views? What is it to say that one person is right and another is wrong, and on what authority will one make such a claim?

This implies a hostile stance, not only in the world view, but in any approach to discussion or negotiation on the definitions. "We're right, it's in the name. Go fuck yourself." The idea of PC is not only an acknowledgement of values-- it is the establishment of a political group, in their minds, as the authority upon which value arguments are to be made. Fart sniffers, in other words.

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(August 16, 2018 at 7:45 am)Khemikal Wrote: The system is definitely rigged by the patriarchy, I can see why you think the left thinks that..they do.

Really? And who is this patriarchy, exactly, other than an archetypal scapegoat? Is it a deliberate collaboration of hundreds or thousands of different institutions-- banks, government offices, police, school principles, and so on? Is there some hidden cabal with regular meetings during which members gleefully rub their fingers together and plan ways to maintain their vice-like grip on the population?

Or is it something unspoken, a simple expression of evolved traits that time and time again manifests itself because that's what the human species are? For a guy who doesn't believe in free will, you are sure attributing a lot of blame to the agency of a demographic.

.................?

Sure, and the context of political correctness is that..maybe, we should curtail our use of ethnic slurs, for example.  That constantly bitching about how the darkies do this and the darkies do that is a giant red flag.  

As before, in asking how you go from assholes to the pc left...how do you derive "we're right, it's in the name, go fuck yourself" from that?

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(August 16, 2018 at 8:28 am)bennyboy Wrote: Really?  And who is this patriarchy, exactly, other than an archetypal scapegoat?  Is it a deliberate collaboration of hundreds or thousands of different institutions-- banks, government offices, police, school principles, and so on?

Not at all..though there are intentional actors of the patriarchy.  Open and outright supporters of it..on many different grounds. Peterson, for example.

Quote:Or is it something unspoken, a simple expression of evolved traits?  For a guy who doesn't believe in free will, you are sure attributing a lot of blame to the agency of a demographic.

Whether or not it's an expression of evolved traits (in whatever sense you mean that) is as irrelevant to the ideology of the left as it is to the organization of our society.  It's also an expression of an evolved trait that I might shit in my neighbors yard.  That doesn't make it okay.  It's not an ameliorating item.  If I'm shitting in my neighbors yard...and then get called out on my shit..saying "but I evolved this way!" would be..less than compelling....

Wouldn't you agree?

Similarly, worrying that you will be lumped in with horrible motherfuckers (who you also think are horrible) fails to stick it's landing when you yourself decide to read and affirm their script. No one is identity warring you or lumping you in..except you.

(August 16, 2018 at 8:34 am)Khemikal Wrote: .................?

Sure, and the context of political correctness is that..maybe, we should curtail our use of ethnic slurs, for example.  That constantly bitching about how the darkies do this and the darkies do that is a giant red flag.  

As before, in asking how you go from assholes to the pc left...how do you derive "we're right, it's in the name, go fuck yourself" from that?

Because "right" is a synonym for "correct," and that's what the "c" in PC stands for?

Oooooookay...

So..on the basis of the c in pc standing for correctness..you have concluded "we're right, it's in the name, go fuck yourself"?

I feel like I'm asking for directions in rural new england, all of a sudden.

(August 16, 2018 at 8:46 am)Khemikal Wrote: Oooooookay...

So..on the basis of the c in pc standing for correctness..you have concluded "we're right, it's in the name, go fuck yourself"?

I feel like I'm asking for directions in rural new england, all of a sudden.  

Wait until you meet his cousin on both sides and wife.

(August 16, 2018 at 8:34 am)Khemikal Wrote: Whether or not it's an expression of evolved traits (in whatever sense you mean that) is as irrelevant to the ideology of the left as it is to the organization of our society.  It's also an expression of an evolved trait that I might shit in my neighbors yard.  That doesn't make it okay.  It's not an ameliorating item.  If I'm shitting in my neighbors yard...and then get called out on my shit..saying "but I evolved this way!" would be..less than compelling....

It's a non-trivial issue for a couple reasons. First of all, if you want change, do you protest to remove a particular group of leaders, or do you have to look deeper to the underlying causes that bring them to power?

Alpha dominance, so far as I can tell, is not a conspiracy-- it's a biological fact, hard-coded in the human genome. A certain kind of man is more willing, and more able, to step into that role, as inevitably as a silver-back gorilla will. So what are we to do about this? Ban alpha dominance?

That seems to be the case, in fact, but I don't think it's a strategy that's likely to succeed.

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(August 16, 2018 at 8:46 am)Khemikal Wrote: Oooooookay...

So..on the basis of the c in pc standing for correctness..you have concluded "we're right, it's in the name, go fuck yourself"?

Okay.  What do you think the implications are of PC standing for "political correctness"?  What do those words mean to you?

(August 16, 2018 at 8:49 am)bennyboy Wrote: It's a non-trivial issue for a couple reasons.  First of all, if you want change, do you protest to remove a particular group of leaders, or do you have to look deeper to the underlying causes that bring them to power?

There's no reason to choose between the two.  Doing both simultaneously will increase the effect.  Thing is..while you're advocating for that..the ideology you're affirming and the language you're using and the advocate that you're defending is not doing that.  That ideology, that language, and that advocate..uses the backdrop of folk science to deflect and shield those things we (the pc left..lol) seek to change.  

Quote:Alpha dominance, so far as I can tell, is not a conspiracy-- it's a biological fact, hard-coded in the human genome.  A certain kind of man is more willing, and more able, to step into that role, as inevitably as a silver-back gorilla will.  So what are we to do about this?  Ban alpha dominance?

The existence of alpha dominance is not an ameliorating item in the case of institutional or cultural inequality anymore than my having evolved to take a shit in my neighbors yard would be.

It's a pathetic attempt to dilute the issue in order to avoid change, in order to avoid complicity, in order to reduce ones discomfort.  

Quote:That seems to be the case, in fact, but I don't think it's a strategy that's likely to succeed.

Why does that seem to be the case to you?  Are we black bagging "alpha males" and sending them off to the gulag...have petersons fears been fully realized and the white male genocide simply hasn't gotten around to me yet?

Quote:Okay.  What do you think the implications are of PC standing for "political correctness"?  What do those words mean to you?

........................?

I've never met any of these ultra fringe looney left people in England. I'm sure there will be a handful sprinkled around, there always is on any position, but everyone on the left here would call them loonies as much as anyone else. I can't speak for other countries.

I still don't know that benny is actually talking about far left loonies so much as he's met a few low character individuals and then based his assessment of the "pc left" on that tiny sample.

Encouraged by partisan hacks like the good doctor pete.