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On Hell and Forgiveness
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 (August 30, 2018 at 11:59 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Yes. Love is a way of experiencing God in this life. Attributing things to god never works out in the end due to the ill logic. Sure, it makes you feel good in the end because of the lies you have been fed your entire life. That's about it, because you continue to want to believe in the lies because of how those lies make you feel. Emotion over logic is a great indicator of preferring the lie over the truth. (August 30, 2018 at 12:03 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:(August 30, 2018 at 11:22 am)Kit Wrote: Because you are wrong and unwilling to accept it. Therefore, you're preferring the delusion over the reality. The one can be demonstrated to be true, whereas the other is a foot stomping tantrum for having been exposed as a loon. Easy question.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
 (August 30, 2018 at 12:01 pm)polymath257 Wrote:(August 30, 2018 at 11:05 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Poly, may I ask you why? I'm not trying to change your mind or challenge you. I am genuinely curious to understand your perspective. Can you just answer the hypothetical?
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh (August 30, 2018 at 12:03 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:(August 30, 2018 at 11:22 am)Kit Wrote: Because you are wrong and unwilling to accept it. Therefore, you're preferring the delusion over the reality. Think of it this way: Theist: god is real / unicorn is real Atheist: god is not real / unicorn is not real It is not willful ignorance on part of the atheist when there is absolutely no evidence for the existence of that for which the believer is making a positive claim of existence. It is not a difficult concept to understand, yet theist tend to make it doubly so merely based on an ignorant adherence to faith. Faith is nothing of which to be proud or to cling. It should be discarded, because it is useless. It corrupts the mind, which becomes more apparent the more we debate. RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
August 30, 2018 at 12:10 pm
(This post was last modified: August 30, 2018 at 12:11 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
If I died and saw a god and god -did- explain that he wasn't the christian god after all (silly christians, never realizing that this is the only way their hypothetical can be true, lol)..I'd still have all the same opinions about gods in the general.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
 RE: On Hell and Forgiveness
August 30, 2018 at 12:39 pm
(This post was last modified: August 30, 2018 at 12:41 pm by Neo-Scholastic.)
(August 30, 2018 at 12:08 pm)Kit Wrote:(August 30, 2018 at 12:03 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: How is that different from a believer accusing you of willful ignorance and degeneracy for refusing to believe? Accusing other people of intellectual stubbornness and professing things they don't actually believe sounds to me like an excuse to deny the possibility that Christians could have genuine and innocent reasons for their beliefs. That reads like a polemic. I wouldn't be so certain. There are things that are evident about the world. People can reason from some of those observations that God exists. You may believe that that specific conclusion does not follow from particular observations, but saying flat out that there is "no evidence" inverts the relationship between evidence and the conclusions one could possibly draw from the evidence. As such it is an unfounded assertion. Let me show you the difference... Step 1: There is something evident about the world. Step 2: Some conclusion follows from what is evident. Step 3: What is evident supports the conclusion. versus Step 1: No conclusions can be drawn from something evident about the world.
<insert profound quote here>
 (August 30, 2018 at 12:07 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:(August 30, 2018 at 12:01 pm)polymath257 Wrote: You propose a scenario that makes no sense to me. Sure, we could have some powerful entity that is good and loving. But that is quite different than being 'goodness' and 'love' themselves. And those are psychological entities, NOT some all powerful force. I am trying to make sense of the hypothetical and failing. The hypothetical itself makes no sense to me. it identifies emotions (love, goodness) as a deity. That makes no sense at all. (August 30, 2018 at 12:39 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: That reads like a polemic. I wouldn't be so certain. There are things that are evident about the world. 1People can reason from some of those observations that God exists. You may believe that that specific conclusion does not follow from particular observations, but 2saying flat out that there is "no evidence" inverts the relationship between evidence and the conclusions one could possibly draw from the evidence. As such it is an unfounded assertion. Let me show you the difference... 1. If there was actual reason behind why you believe as you do, there would be no reason for anyone to disbelieve. 2. There is no evidence. It is that simple. Refer back to #1 3. God is not evident. Never has been. Imagination, on the other hand...... (August 30, 2018 at 12:42 pm)polymath257 Wrote:(August 30, 2018 at 12:07 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Can you just answer the hypothetical? It doesn't need to "make sense" to you how God can be love. It is a hypothetical. In the Hypothetical, God is love, regardless of whether that makes logical sense to you or not. Are you declining to answer?
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh |
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