(August 16, 2018 at 11:27 pm)bennyboy Wrote: It's a typical response to a one-liner.  Either he's crazy, or there's something behind those words that you're not aware of.  I'll bet a million dollars that if we google Maryam Monsef, we'll find this isn't after all a simple issue of gender equality.  I'll bet a million dollars it leads pretty quickly to identity politics and some kind of PC fuckery.

Want to go down that rabbit hole with me?  Let's do this.

....lol.....(this, ofc @ trudeau tweeting out that he stood with his minster of womens affairs (or whatever the hell they call it it canadia, lol), on the day of a womens march - PC fuckery MOST FOUL!)

-and down the rabbit hole we went, and here we are. Turns out petersons a fucking space cadet - his comments are impossible to rehabilitate. Now, though, it seems like telling people on the TeeVees they can't call people darkies is going to lead to the gulags after all. Did he write other checks his couldn't cash, too?

(September 4, 2018 at 6:26 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: Actually, I think the million dollar bet was that A) I wasn't randomly browsing Cracked when I discovered this article on Jordan Peterson and instead, just looking for the first bad article I could find about Jordan Peterson, and that B) Cracked is just a website that covers articles about the stupidity of the first Jet Pack and reasons to be worried about Star Wars Episode IX.

I proved him wrong on both counts within a single post, noting that A) I had been with the thread within the first 23 minutes of the OP, B) Just Googling Jordan Peterson's name yielded four articles that are just as, if not more damning, before I even left the first page of results, and C) Cracked actually does have some legitimately thought-provoking articles (I linked to EIGHT in that post.)

Also, about the "randomly browsing Cracked," I realised I did not exactly address this issue. So, just search Keyword:"Cracked"  Username: "Rev. Rye." You'll find I actually do read Cracked quite a bit. Not exactly every day, but it shouldn't be too hard to imagine that I'd just stumble upon an article while browsing it.

Eh?

Why we talking about this?  I saw on Cracked front page a bunch of BS articles, and reckoned it wasn't a good source.  You immediately linked some good articles, and I immediately said I'd been wrong in my view about that publication.

When I'm wrong, I'm perfectly happy saying so.

--edit--
I'll even go further than that. EVEN IF Cracked had nothing but BS articles, you weren't using Cracked as an authority, and I should still have taken that individual article on its own merits. Not to do so would be very much using a guilt of association of ideas, the kind of thing I've been complaining about with Khemikal. Hypocrisy is never a good policy.

Lets test that theory.

Is the pc left or social justice movement actually trying to discriminate aginst you, abrogate your rights, stigmatize you, deny you your pride, or create a loss of esteem on account of your whiteness?

If there are consequences for spouting off ethnic slurs and racial myths on tv, will this actually lead to the downfall of western civilization in some nostalgic soviet trip full of empty breadlines?

(September 4, 2018 at 6:48 pm)Khemikal Wrote:

(August 16, 2018 at 11:27 pm)bennyboy Wrote: It's a typical response to a one-liner.  Either he's crazy, or there's something behind those words that you're not aware of.  I'll bet a million dollars that if we google Maryam Monsef, we'll find this isn't after all a simple issue of gender equality.  I'll bet a million dollars it leads pretty quickly to identity politics and some kind of PC fuckery.

Want to go down that rabbit hole with me?  Let's do this.

....lol.....(this, ofc @ trudeau tweeting out that he stood with his minster of womens affairs (or whatever the hell they call it it canadia, lol), on the day of a womens march - PC fuckery MOST FOUL!)

-and down the rabbit hole we went, and here we are.  Turns out petersons a fucking space cadet - his comments are impossible to rehabilitate.   Now, though, it seems like telling people on the TeeVees they can't call people darkies is going to lead to the gulags after all.  Did he write other checks his couldn't cash, too?

Wow. . . backtracking much?  I'm still waiting for you to source your links on the horrible conspiracy of IQ racist science, and you've bone back to that?

But yeah, if you want to go back to that, I'll stand on my statement.  I don't think Peterson called out that particular woman because she's leading a women's march, and he hates women-- thought that's how you'd portray it, I imagine.  I think there's something Peterson knows (or thinks) about that particular woman that you don't.  Instead of shouting "obvious sexist bigot!" maybe we should google her and see what's up?

And no, we did not go down that rabbit hole, and it doesn't "turn out" anything.  You have never, in this entire thread that I can see, made an assertion and supported it with actual facts.

---

(September 4, 2018 at 7:10 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Lets test that theory.

Is the pc left or social justice movement actually trying to discriminate aginst you, abrogate your rights, stigmatize you, deny you your pride, or create a loss of esteem on account of your whiteness?

If there are consequences for spouting off ethnic slurs and racial myths on tv, will this actually lead to the downfall of western civilization in some nostalgic soviet trip full of empty breadlines?

Is the PC Left trying to stigmatize me?  You fucking trolling right now, bro?  Or are you saying you are not PC Left?

Have I ever said the SJW's are trying to discriminate against me, abrogate my rights, deny me my pride, or create a loss of esteem? You keep putting up this fucking straw man, and then you expect me to stand there while you sniff your farts for a couple pages. What do you want me to say? Oh Khem, you're such a herrrroooooo. You know all the right words to say about all the right demographic grouuuuups! Your glorious farts are going to solve society's problems!

What I've said about the PC Left is that they will sling shit, avoid facts, and attempt to use rhetoric (strawman arguments, ad homs, etc.) to shut down legitimate discourse on sensitive subjects. And you've done exactly that for 70 pages. You couldn't be a better poster child for the complete shit that is PC Left argumentation if you tried.

I've been trying to come up with real left-wing solutions to real social problems-- releasing prisoners, establishing financial incentives, and so on. I even suggested improving health care in poor areas as an attempt to close the IQ (and therefore salary) gap, and you shot DOWN that idea, on the basis that "anyway, networking blah blah blah." What actual plan do you have, other than just shouting out memes over and over?

What actual PLAN. . . would you suggest. . . in regard to ANY problem? You know. . . beyond sniffing the righteous farts of loudly proclaimed justice, that is?

(September 4, 2018 at 7:12 pm)bennyboy Wrote:

(September 4, 2018 at 6:48 pm)Khemikal Wrote: ....lol.....(this, ofc @ trudeau tweeting out that he stood with his minster of womens affairs (or whatever the hell they call it it canadia, lol), on the day of a womens march - PC fuckery MOST FOUL!)

-and down the rabbit hole we went, and here we are.  Turns out petersons a fucking space cadet - his comments are impossible to rehabilitate.   Now, though, it seems like telling people on the TeeVees they can't call people darkies is going to lead to the gulags after all.  Did he write other checks his couldn't cash, too?

Wow. . . backtracking much?  I'm still waiting for you to source your links on the horrible conspiracy of IQ racist science, and you've bone back to that?

Follow the advice of that smart man, Benjamin Boy, when he mentioned that smart people like him go and investigate the information.  Unlike the rest of us identity politicking dummies, ofc, lol.

Quote:But yeah, if you want to go back to that, I'll stand on my statement.  I don't think Peterson called out that particular woman because she's leading a women's march, and he hates women-- thought that's how you'd portray it, I imagine.

I think he's a space cadet with a soviet fetish and a traditionalist bent who found a way to monetize people such as yourself.

Quote:  I think there's something Peterson knows (or thinks) about that particular woman that you don't.  Instead of shouting "obvious sexist bigot!" maybe we should google her and see what's up?

Like, that she's out to gulag the world with the "murderous doctrine" of equality?  Is that what Peterson knows about her? Did he intercept emails from the latest homicidal vagenda meeting? You don't remember conceding this point, at all...do you?




-at the rest....looks like a solid no on that whole being happy to be wrong bit, to me.

(September 4, 2018 at 7:21 pm)Khemikal Wrote:

(September 4, 2018 at 7:12 pm)bennyboy Wrote: Wow. . . backtracking much?  I'm still waiting for you to source your links on the horrible conspiracy of IQ racist science, and you've bone back to that?

Follow the advice of that smart man, Benjamin Boy, when he mentioned that smart people like him go and investigate the information.  Unlike the rest of us identity politicking dummies, ofc, lol.

Uh huh.

OR you can back up your own damned claims. That will save me time and effort, and will show that you aren't pulling stats out of your ass.

---

(September 4, 2018 at 7:21 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Like, that she's out to gulag the world with the "murderous doctrine" of equality?  Is that what Peterson knows about her?  Did he intercept emails from the latest homicidal vagenda meeting?  You don't remember conceding this point, at all...do you?  

I don't KNOW why he said that about her. Either he's attacking her because he hates women, and she's representing women-- or he has another beef with her. I can't imagine he'd really express the former in that way, so I believe it's probably the latter.

If the guy is against women's marches, or women, then I for sure wouldn't support that; I shouldn't have to say it, but let's be clear about it. If he's against her specifically (or Trudeau), then we'll have to know what his beef is with her before we can intelligently discuss that post.

I never said the guy is my god (you said that, not me) or that he's always right. I'm perfectly capable of disagreeing with him. I disagree, for example, with the way he waffles about religion. I still don't know if he's a theist or not.

But the problem is that you see the word "women," and you instantly go full-trigger SJW without bothering to actually find out why he said that. That's weak.

Or I see someone peddling crypotmarxist bullshit and you swallowing it wholesale.  There just must be something..other than his well known penchant for imagining that the slightest hint of equality leads to gulags....

We've done all of this before, and you decided he was going loon.  I think it's strange to see you mimicking the same nonsense 30 or so pages later.

(September 4, 2018 at 7:06 pm)bennyboy Wrote:

(September 4, 2018 at 6:26 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: Actually, I think the million dollar bet was that A) I wasn't randomly browsing Cracked when I discovered this article on Jordan Peterson and instead, just looking for the first bad article I could find about Jordan Peterson, and that B) Cracked is just a website that covers articles about the stupidity of the first Jet Pack and reasons to be worried about Star Wars Episode IX.

I proved him wrong on both counts within a single post, noting that A) I had been with the thread within the first 23 minutes of the OP, B) Just Googling Jordan Peterson's name yielded four articles that are just as, if not more damning, before I even left the first page of results, and C) Cracked actually does have some legitimately thought-provoking articles (I linked to EIGHT in that post.)

Also, about the "randomly browsing Cracked," I realised I did not exactly address this issue. So, just search Keyword:"Cracked"  Username: "Rev. Rye." You'll find I actually do read Cracked quite a bit. Not exactly every day, but it shouldn't be too hard to imagine that I'd just stumble upon an article while browsing it.

Eh?

Why we talking about this?  I saw on Cracked front page a bunch of BS articles, and reckoned it wasn't a good source.  You immediately linked some good articles, and I immediately said I'd been wrong in my view about that publication.

When I'm wrong, I'm perfectly happy saying so.

Okay, I just did a "search thread" and found out that our debate about Cracked wasn't the only time you "bet a million dollars" this thread. I fucked up, and I take responsibility for not doing a proper search beforehand.

(September 4, 2018 at 9:02 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Or I see someone peddling crypotmarxist bullshit and you swallowing it wholesale.  There just must be something..other than his well known penchant for imagining that the slightest hint of equality leads to gulags....

We've done all of this before, and you decided he was going loon.  I think it's strange to see you mimicking the same nonsense 30 or so pages later.

Well, let me say this.  While I agree with his aversion to the PC Left, and strongly so, I don't think countering hysterical ideological stereotyping, and especially superlative language, is best countered by doing the exact same thing.  I find him a little too combative-- or at least that he picks his battles strangely.

That being said, as you know I agree with much of his aversion to the PC Left, and I think some of his views, especially with regard to evolutionary psychology, both to be representative of that field as a whole, and quite insightful for a layperson like me. In dealing with you and Tiz, I'm more aware that your comments, which I thought mainly to be individual, seem more stereotyped-- you are representative of a movement. And you certainly have expressed in no uncertain terms that you think so about me.

I've tried hard to see the "other side," and to discuss the race issue and solutions to it. I don't think you've yet arrived at a position where you can see any merit or benefit in mutual understanding: "a racist is a racist," right? But I'd say even among the worst hate groups, there are real ideas and positions that we can identify, and they shouldn't be downplayed as pointless hatred-- they should be fully understood, right down to the motivations behind them, and dealt with with some understandning.

---

(September 4, 2018 at 10:05 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: Okay, I just did a "search thread" and found out that our debate about Cracked wasn't the only time you "bet a million dollars" this thread. I fucked up, and I take responsibility for not doing a proper search beforehand.

Nah, it's fine.  Going back to that allowed me to amend my previous position-- not only with regard to my mistaken view on Cracked, but to admit to some hypocrisy in my way of dealing with what I thought was a one-off piece.  So I think there was some benefit in revisiting it, at least for me, even if the wires got crossed along the way.

(September 4, 2018 at 11:16 pm)bennyboy Wrote:

(September 4, 2018 at 9:02 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Or I see someone peddling crypotmarxist bullshit and you swallowing it wholesale.  There just must be something..other than his well known penchant for imagining that the slightest hint of equality leads to gulags....

We've done all of this before, and you decided he was going loon.  I think it's strange to see you mimicking the same nonsense 30 or so pages later.

Well, let me say this.  While I agree with his aversion to the PC Left, and strongly so, I don't think countering hysterical ideological stereotyping, and especially superlative language, is best countered by doing the exact same thing.  I find him a little too combative-- or at least that he picks his battles strangely.

That being said, as you know I agree with much of his aversion to the PC Left, and I think some of his views, especially with regard to evolutionary psychology, both to be representative of that field as a whole, and quite insightful for a layperson like me.  In dealing with you and Tiz, I'm more aware that your comments, which I thought mainly to be individual, seem more stereotyped-- you are representative of a movement.  And you certainly have expressed in no uncertain terms that you think so about me.

I've tried hard to see the "other side," and to discuss the race issue and solutions to it.  I don't think you've yet arrived at a position where you can see any merit or benefit in mutual understanding: "a racist is a racist," right?  But I'd say even among the worst hate groups, there are real ideas and positions that we can identify, and they shouldn't be downplayed as pointless hatred-- they should be fully understood, right down to the motivations behind them, and dealt with with some understandning.

Then what's this shit..............

Quote:That's the biggest problem I have with PC. It simply won't work. Practices which replace one dogma with another, but don't improve productivity, for example, might mean a redistribution of wealth-- but it will never mean that everyone has enough. The PC left will completely ignore the facts, and therefore demand restitution for this or that group, bigger welfare payments, higher minimum wage, and so on. That's nice, today, but what happens when 300 million people go to the market and discover that there's nothing but an old loaf of bread?

We KNOW what happens. We saw it for the entire second half of the 20th century.

.....if not hysterics........-identical- hysterics, no less?

Now you're whining at me about a mutual understanding with racists, lol? Awwwwwwwww, poor misunderstood racists! My heart truly bleeds, lol.