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October 9, 2018 at 1:28 pm (This post was last modified: October 9, 2018 at 1:31 pm by Drich.)
(October 8, 2018 at 5:00 pm)adey67 Wrote:
(October 8, 2018 at 3:48 pm)Reltzik Wrote: So to review:
For choosing to use a translation that was published less than half a century ago, was deliberately put together to use modern English (not a "thou" or "shalt" to be found) and is one of the most popular (and perhaps THE most popular) English translations today...
... and for quoting a verse in which Christians are told they must hate from the NIV in direct response to your challenge, rather than quoting from whichever translation you are employing... in an argument about Christianity generally, in which the role of the more popular translations in shaping Christian conduct are more applicable than the less-popular ones...
I am a douche bag -- your words -- quoting from a dead dialect -- your words -- and have done so not because it is one of the most rational translations to choose in this context, and also not because I'm only familiar with a few translations rather than having the vast familiarity of some sort of a Biblical sommelier, but rather because I am cherry-picking and must be trying to make it say whatever I want -- again, your words.
.....
...
.
Well, THIS is obviously a charming, rational, sensible individual who clearly has great value to contribute to the dialogue. It would definitely be very productive and not at all be a waste of time or source of constant frustration to engage with him.
*inaugurates his ignore list by adding a fucking douche bag to it*
The guy is a dishonest disingenuous debater that tries to cheat his way out of arguments, and I thought pride was a sin, obviously not for that fellow.
what the f do you know I have NEVER even spoken to you about anything at length.. all you could possible know is what the people here whom I have repeatedly and systematical taken apart over the years.
Are you too frighten to put your own self out there to think for your self? are you so afraid of being humiliated that you will allow others to do your thinking for you? you have 30 posts and what a few day here, with no real inneraction with me, yet you speak as an expert.
That my friend is a shinning example of a disingenuous and dishonest assessment. you have no debate experience with me and yet you speak as if you do.
yet you do not care. because integrity means nothing to you or people like you. you see a band wagon and you jump on it rather than get your own hands dirty.. you sport are a human lemming. You just follow the crowd and mirror what they think even if they all jump off a cliff.
That said here is another place where you are wrong. Pride in God is never a sin. I have made no bones about where my wisdom comes from, and I know I would be nothing without the guidance of the Holy Spirit and direct access to God. My pride is in the fact that He would use me to set his record straight here. And in following in the foot steps of Christ I have no qualms in humiliating, embarrassing, the religious know it alls here I have no problem making the wise and learned look foolish and I have no problems putting people who pretend to teach or represent God's law in full check.
Do you want to know why I've been here so long and why I have over 10,000 posts? because 1 I can and do operate with n the rules. 2 I make a legitimate effort to accurately represent the Christian side of the debate. Just because none of your peers could ever breach that wall is not about me or my ability. it because they are foolishly arguing against God's word. I have simply been used as one who wields this sword.
You know maybe you should also put me on ignore so you do not have to ever respond and loose, then if you stick around you can say you never lost a debate with me.
(October 9, 2018 at 1:24 pm)Thoreauvian Wrote:
(October 9, 2018 at 1:02 pm)Drich Wrote: what hypocrisy.. you blame God and other Christians for those who do not understand who they worship... Again hate is a human trait that people bring into the church and then use anything they can to justify their hate. look at the venom on the atheist side towards the christian members here.. does it take eternal hell for them to muster this hate? look at some of the crazy left wing political groups, i don't know one who claims to represent the church. look at the hate and intolerance there is in those groups for trump and his followers. people have much hate in them and they use whatever they are passionate about to direct their hate. this is not a church thing. this is a bad person thing.
An impressive way to change the subject. Yes indeed, hatred is a human problem. But the discussion was specifically about how Christians rationalize their hatred.
Actually christian hatred is the OP of this thread. I simply tied what you said back to the topic being discussed.
meaning what I said above... christians can not hate or literally by God's word they are not saved. Hence Hate is a human problem not a christian problem
October 9, 2018 at 1:33 pm (This post was last modified: October 9, 2018 at 1:53 pm by Alan V.)
(October 9, 2018 at 1:28 pm)Drich Wrote: what the f do you know I have NEVER even spoken to you about anything at length.. all you could possible know is what the people here whom I have repeatedly and systematical taken apart over the years.
Are you too frighten to put your own self out there to think for your self? are you so afraid of being humiliated that you will allow others to do your thinking for you? you have 30 posts and what a few day here, with no real inneraction with me, yet you speak as an expert.
That my friend is a shinning example of a disingenuous and dishonest assessment. you have no debate experience with me and yet you speak as if you do. yet you do not care. because integrity means nothing to you or people like you. you see a band wagon and you jump on it rather than get your own hands dirty.. you sport are a human lemming. You just follow the crowd and mirror what they think even if they all jump off a cliff.
That said here is another place where you are wrong. Pride in God is never a sin. I have made no bones about where my wisdom comes from, and I know I would be nothing without the guidance of the Holy Spirit and direct access to God. My pride is in the fact that He would use me to set his record straight here. And in following in the foot steps of Christ I have no qualms in humiliating, embarrassing, the religious know it alls here I have no problem making the wise and learned look foolish and I have no problems putting people who pretend to teach or represent God's law in full check.
Do you want to know why I've been here so long and why I have over 10,000 posts? because 1 I can and do operate with n the rules. 2 I make a legitimate effort to accurately represent the Christian side of the debate. Just because none of your peers could ever breach that wall is not about me or my ability. it because they are foolishly arguing against God's word. I have simply been used as one who wields this sword.
You know maybe you should also put me on ignore so you do not have to ever respond and loose, then if you stick around you can say you never lost a debate with me.
^^^^^^^ Christian love.
Drich -- Thanks for answering the question of why Christians hate.
(October 9, 2018 at 1:02 pm)Drich Wrote: what hypocrisy.. you blame God and other Christians for those who do not understand who they worship... Again hate is a human trait that people bring into the church and then use anything they can to justify their hate. look at the venom on the atheist side towards the christian members here.. does it take eternal hell for them to muster this hate? look at some of the crazy left wing political groups, i don't know one who claims to represent the church. look at the hate and intolerance there is in those groups for trump and his followers. people have much hate in them and they use whatever they are passionate about to direct their hate. this is not a church thing. this is a bad person thing.
An impressive way to change the subject. Yes indeed, hatred is a human problem. But the discussion was specifically about how Christians rationalize their hatred.
just like I said brother
, did you seriously expect anything else than parlor tricks from this type of christian ? If so then shame for your naivety my friend.
(October 9, 2018 at 1:28 pm)Drich Wrote: what the f do you know I have NEVER even spoken to you about anything at length.. all you could possible know is what the people here whom I have repeatedly and systematical taken apart over the years.
Are you too frighten to put your own self out there to think for your self? are you so afraid of being humiliated that you will allow others to do your thinking for you? you have 30 posts and what a few day here, with no real inneraction with me, yet you speak as an expert.
That my friend is a shinning example of a disingenuous and dishonest assessment. you have no debate experience with me and yet you speak as if you do.
yet you do not care. because integrity means nothing to you or people like you. you see a band wagon and you jump on it rather than get your own hands dirty.. you sport are a human lemming. You just follow the crowd and mirror what they think even if they all jump off a cliff.
That said here is another place where you are wrong. Pride in God is never a sin. I have made no bones about where my wisdom comes from, and I know I would be nothing without the guidance of the Holy Spirit and direct access to God. My pride is in the fact that He would use me to set his record straight here. And in following in the foot steps of Christ I have no qualms in humiliating, embarrassing, the religious know it alls here I have no problem making the wise and learned look foolish and I have no problems putting people who pretend to teach or represent God's law in full check.
Do you want to know why I've been here so long and why I have over 10,000 posts? because 1 I can and do operate with n the rules. 2 I make a legitimate effort to accurately represent the Christian side of the debate. Just because none of your peers could ever breach that wall is not about me or my ability. it because they are foolishly arguing against God's word. I have simply been used as one who wields this sword.
You know maybe you should also put me on ignore so you do not have to ever respond and loose, then if you stick around you can say you never lost a debate with me.
^^^^^^^ Christian love.
believe it or not... These are the words of Christ:
Jesus Criticizes the Religious Leaders 23 Then Jesus spoke to the people and to his followers. He said, 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees have the authority to tell you what the Law of Moses says. 3 So you should obey them. Do everything they tell you to do. But their lives are not good examples for you to follow. They tell you to do things, but they don’t do those things themselves.4 They make strict rules that are hard for people to obey. They try to force others to obey all their rules. But they themselves will not try to follow any of those rules. 5 “The only reason they do what they do is for other people to see them. They make the little Scripture boxes[a] they wear bigger and bigger. And they make the tassels[b] on their prayer clothes long enough for people to notice them. 6 These men love to have the places of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues. 7 They love for people to show respect to them in the marketplaces and to call them ‘Teacher.’ 8 “But you must not be called ‘Teacher.’ You are all equal as brothers and sisters. You have only one Teacher. 9 And don’t call anyone on earth ‘Father.’ You have one Father. He is in heaven. 10 And you should not be called ‘Master.’ You have only one Master, the Messiah. 11 Whoever serves you like a servant is the greatest among you. 12 People who think they are better than others will be made humble. But people who humble themselves will be made great. 13 “It will be bad for you teachers of the law and you Pharisees! You are hypocrites! You close the way for people to enter God’s kingdom. You yourselves don’t enter, and you stop those who are trying to enter. 14 [c] 15 “It will be bad for you teachers of the law and you Pharisees! You are hypocrites. You travel across the seas and across different countries to find one person who will follow your ways. When you find that person, you make him worse than you are. And you are so bad that you belong in hell! 16 “It will be bad for you teachers of the law and you Pharisees! You guide the people, but you are blind. You say, ‘If anyone uses the name of the Temple to make a promise, that means nothing. But anyone who uses the gold that is in the Temple to make a promise must keep that promise.’ 17 You are blind fools! Can’t you see that the Temple is greater than the gold on it? It’s the Temple that makes the gold holy! 18 “And you say, ‘If anyone uses the altar to make a promise, that means nothing. But anyone who uses the gift on the altar to make a promise must keep that promise.’ 19 You are blind! Can’t you see that the altar is greater than any gift on it? It’s the altar that makes the gift holy!20 Whoever uses the altar to make a promise is really using the altar and everything on the altar. 21 And anyone who uses the Temple to make a promise is really using the Temple and God, who lives in it. 22 Whoever uses heaven to make a promise is using God’s throne and the one who is seated on it. 23 “It will be bad for you teachers of the law and you Pharisees! You are hypocrites! You give God a tenth of the food you get, even your mint, dill, and cumin.[d] But you don’t obey the really important teachings of the law—being fair, showing mercy, and being faithful. These are the things you should do. And you should also continue to do those other things. 24 You guide the people, but you are blind! Think about a man picking a little fly out of his drink and then swallowing a camel! You are like that.[e] 25 “It will be bad for you teachers of the law and you Pharisees! You are hypocrites! You wash clean the outside of your cups and dishes. But inside they are full of what you got by cheating others and pleasing yourselves. 26 Pharisees, you are blind! First make the inside of the cup clean and good. Then the outside of the cup will also be clean. 27 “It will be bad for you teachers of the law and you Pharisees! You are hypocrites! You are like tombs that are painted white. Outside they look fine, but inside they are full of dead people’s bones and all kinds of filth.28 It is the same with you. People look at you and think you are godly. But on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and evil. 29 “It will be bad for you teachers of the law and you Pharisees! You are hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets. And you show honor to the graves of the godly people who were killed. 30 And you say, ‘If we had lived during the time of our ancestors, we would not have helped them kill these prophets.’ 31 So you give proof that you are descendants of those who killed the prophets. 32 And you will finish the sin that your ancestors started! 33 “You are snakes! You are from a family of poisonous snakes! You will not escape God. You will all be judged guilty and go to hell! 34 So I tell you this: I send to you prophets and teachers who are wise and know the Scriptures. You will kill some of them. You will hang some of them on crosses. You will beat some of them in your synagogues. You will chase them from town to town. 35 “So you will be guilty for the death of all the good people who have been killed on earth. You will be guilty for the killing of that godly man Abel. And you will be guilty for the killing of Zechariah[f] son of Berachiah. He was killed between the Temple and the altar. You will be guilty for the killing of all the good people who lived between the time of Abel and the time of Zechariah. 36 Believe me when I say that all these things will happen to you people who are living now. Jesus Warns the People of Jerusalem 37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem! You kill the prophets. You stone to death those that God has sent to you. Many, many times I wanted to help your people. I wanted to gather them together as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings. But you did not let me. 38 Now your house will be left completely empty. 39 I tell you, you will not see me again until that time when you will say, ‘Welcome! God bless the one who comes in the name of the Lord.’[g]”
Pretty harsh contrast from what most people think of when they think of Jesus look at what was said and to whom.. Jesus essentially cursed out (fowl language) to the most holiest men in the whole jewish religion. Imagine the pope and all of his cardinals being dressed down call jackass blind leaders fools poisonous snakes and on and on. Christ had no respect for these men who pretended to speak the truth yet their truth were lies created to keep people away from God and made their lives easier!
This isn't it. Jesus escalates it when he comes to the money changers. Here he fashioned a cords into a whip and beat and flipped over tables and chases those priests out of the temple. (this is what got him killed)
His harsh rebukes were not just reserved for contrasting religious views but to his disciples he held nothing back. he called them all sorts of names the worst being petra which mean unstable gravel, petros means solid rock which is where we get "peter" but jesus did not call peter a rock he called him unstable/loose gravel the exact opposite of how we identify him in the church. he regularly shamed and embarrassed the guys for not understanding the parables he taught.
And here is where you are wrong in your idea of christian love. we are not require to love people how they want to be loved. we are to treat them the same way we want to be loved/agape' For agape' is a form of love that deals with hard forged respect. honor earned between men who may have at one time been at odds with one another as we were at odds with God before Christ. He made a sacrifice and we extend agape out of honor and respect for what he has done for us!
My agape is shown through the time hours and energy expended here daily. no compensation no bragging no recognition usually 5 days a week 4 to 6 hours of writing and studying every day so as to properly answer your questions.
It is through that lens I focus a hash rebuke to a member who has never even had 1 debate with me but has already had his mind made up for him via bitter members who have tried their best and failed to break me or my message. This is me running the money changers out of this kids head and telling him to make up his own mind and don't let others think for him!
That is a message of love considering one of my most valued personal gifts is my own ability to think and formulate my own conclusions based on my own efforts to gather evidence and compile it. This I am challenging the noob to try rather than allow an old embittered soul to taint his mind with their thoughts. To teach someone to think is love to poison them with your personal conclusions is the opposite of love it is subrogation it is control.
(November 14, 2018 at 8:57 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Have a good day at work. If we ever meet in a professional setting, let me answer your question now. Yes, I DO want fries with that.
(October 9, 2018 at 1:21 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: To be fair to most Christians it only seems to be the American ones who are hateful. They are trying to spread the toxic brand world wide, but mostly over in the UK at least, people just look at that sort with pity.
I'll agree with that. I suppose that makes American Xtianity the equivalent of Saudi Arabia's Wahhabism.
(October 9, 2018 at 1:24 pm)Thoreauvian Wrote: An impressive way to change the subject. Yes indeed, hatred is a human problem. But the discussion was specifically about how Christians rationalize their hatred.
just like I said brother
, did you seriously expect anything else than parlor tricks from this type of christian ? If so then shame for your naivety my friend.
What a dishonest assessment.
or keep reading!
I provided an answer the Thor did not understand completely, he thought it was 2 different subjects when my answer was to tie the subjects together in a way he had not considered. Giving him the idea i was changing the subject when in fact I broaden the subject to include what he initially did not think about or dismissed.
In the hate is a human problem as Christian are forbidden to hate or they will not be saved. hence not Christian hence not a christian problem.
(October 8, 2018 at 5:00 pm)adey67 Wrote: The guy is a dishonest disingenuous debater that tries to cheat his way out of arguments, and I thought pride was a sin, obviously not for that fellow.
what the f do you know I have NEVER even spoken to you about anything at length.. all you could possible know is what the people here whom I have repeatedly and systematical taken apart over the years.
Are you too frighten to put your own self out there to think for your self? are you so afraid of being humiliated that you will allow others to do your thinking for you? you have 30 posts and what a few day here, with no real inneraction with me, yet you speak as an expert.
That my friend is a shinning example of a disingenuous and dishonest assessment. you have no debate experience with me and yet you speak as if you do.
yet you do not care. because integrity means nothing to you or people like you. you see a band wagon and you jump on it rather than get your own hands dirty.. you sport are a human lemming. You just follow the crowd and mirror what they think even if they all jump off a cliff.
That said here is another place where you are wrong. Pride in God is never a sin. I have made no bones about where my wisdom comes from, and I know I would be nothing without the guidance of the Holy Spirit and direct access to God. My pride is in the fact that He would use me to set his record straight here. And in following in the foot steps of Christ I have no qualms in humiliating, embarrassing, the religious know it alls here I have no problem making the wise and learned look foolish and I have no problems putting people who pretend to teach or represent God's law in full check.
Do you want to know why I've been here so long and why I have over 10,000 posts? because 1 I can and do operate with n the rules. 2 I make a legitimate effort to accurately represent the Christian side of the debate. Just because none of your peers could ever breach that wall is not about me or my ability. it because they are foolishly arguing against God's word. I have simply been used as one who wields this sword.
You know maybe you should also put me on ignore so you do not have to ever respond and loose, then if you stick around you can say you never lost a debate with me.
(October 9, 2018 at 1:24 pm)Thoreauvian Wrote: An impressive way to change the subject. Yes indeed, hatred is a human problem. But the discussion was specifically about how Christians rationalize their hatred.
Actually christian hatred is the OP of this thread. I simply tied what you said back to the topic being discussed.
meaning what I said above... christians can not hate or literally by God's word they are not saved. Hence Hate is a human problem not a christian problem
Ha Ha Ha, nope, I don't think I'll put you on ignore you're too fucking amusing, anyone who needs to invoke how long they have been here and how many posts they have made in comparison to me and who gets so butt hurt by a newbie sniffing them out is actually clearly seriously bothered by what I said and if I was so insignificant then why even bother responding oh prideful one ? BTW its lose not loose, if you're gonna go head to head with others spelling is important, its my experience that the more angry a person gets and the more disturbed they feel then the more likely they are to make typos and spelling mistakes. Truth is you do not like being contradicted you cannot abide the thought of a world without a magical deity and you cannot stand that perhaps there are people who don't believe there is a god, their disbelief offends you and makes you feel insecure and the anger boils up.
I thank you though, I'm learning so much from you, as in what not to do or how not to be, thanks so much for that I really appreciate it.
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