(March 20, 2019 at 5:16 am)Belaqua Wrote:

(March 20, 2019 at 3:28 am)Catharsis Wrote: the creator being a wicked psychopath

I think you'll see from the replies that people here focus their not-belief on a very specific image of God. Basically a naive literalist reading of the early Old Testament. 

Though people are adamant that their not-belief extends to all the different images of God people have believed in, this is the one that they talk about. What William Blake called Nobodaddy. It doesn't matter that no theologian has ever agreed with that view. 

Sometimes it seems as if people formed a view of the Christian God when they were about 12 years old, decided it was bad, and stopped believing. It doesn't occur to them that a 12-year-old might not have the most well-informed judgment. 

I'm curious of your own view of this. Is there a way for you to describe your thoughts about what God is in a way that wouldn't require as many pages as Thomas Aquinas wrote? People here will insult you no matter what you say, so in that sense any reaction will be the same. But I'm curious.

I think it's interesting that atheists here indicate they don't want God to exist, that they prefer there be no God.  I would say such a desire plays a significant role in why they don't believe. Creates a barrier to prevent belief.

(March 20, 2019 at 5:51 am)Catharsis Wrote: interesting poster

Thank you. I appreciate this, sincerely. I've worked hard on the topics we discuss here, and it's nice to have someone recognize that.

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(March 20, 2019 at 6:27 am)Acrobat Wrote: I think it's interesting that atheists here indicate they don't want God to exist, that they prefer there be no God.  I would say such a desire plays a significant role in why they don't believe. Creates a barrier to prevent belief.

Agreed. Being human, it's very likely that what we want plays a more significant role in our views of things than we are likely to acknowledge. 

Of course, it's something we are willing to accuse others of, but not ourselves. 

Maybe you've read, Thomas Nagel addressed his own desire for there to be no God in his most recent book. It hadn't occurred to me until now that others share this but don't realize that it may be determinative in what they conclude about the world.

(March 20, 2019 at 3:28 am)Catharsis Wrote: When the sun rises over the good and the bad
and the rain pours on the righteous as well as the wicked,
wouldn't you wish there's a god?

Besides all ideas about the creator being a wicked psychopath

wouldn't you wish for a loving god?

You think there is one right now yet still "the sun rises over the good and the bad
and the rain pours on the righteous as well as the wicked".  How do you explain that?

And really, what you are admitting is that the god you believe in is simply the god you wish was there and that you fully realise that he/she/it/housecat makes fuck all difference in the real world.

(March 20, 2019 at 6:27 am)Acrobat Wrote:

(March 20, 2019 at 5:16 am)Belaqua Wrote: I think you'll see from the replies that people here focus their not-belief on a very specific image of God. Basically a naive literalist reading of the early Old Testament. 

Though people are adamant that their not-belief extends to all the different images of God people have believed in, this is the one that they talk about. What William Blake called Nobodaddy. It doesn't matter that no theologian has ever agreed with that view. 

Sometimes it seems as if people formed a view of the Christian God when they were about 12 years old, decided it was bad, and stopped believing. It doesn't occur to them that a 12-year-old might not have the most well-informed judgment. 

I'm curious of your own view of this. Is there a way for you to describe your thoughts about what God is in a way that wouldn't require as many pages as Thomas Aquinas wrote? People here will insult you no matter what you say, so in that sense any reaction will be the same. But I'm curious.

I think it's interesting that atheists here indicate they don't want God to exist, that they prefer there be no God.  I would say such a desire plays a significant role in why they don't believe. Creates a barrier to prevent belief.

Cool, so all I have to do is to develop a want for a god...and then be born in the right country, of course.
Let's not forget that many atheists here were believers at one time.

(March 20, 2019 at 6:48 am)Belaqua Wrote:

(March 20, 2019 at 5:51 am)Catharsis Wrote: interesting poster

Thank you. I appreciate this, sincerely. I've worked hard on the topics we discuss here, and it's nice to have someone recognize that.

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I'm not sure about what some people their problem is here.
I think their only purpose is to be annoying not looking for any answer.

(March 20, 2019 at 7:04 am)Little lunch Wrote: Cool, so all I have to do is to develop a want for a god...and then be born in the right country, of course.

That's not what I'm saying, of course.

Do you think that people's conclusions about things like religion are unaffected by their desires? Is it possible that desire may overcome careful reasoning? 

If we want to be careful in our conclusions, we have to acknowledge that desire affects our thinking. 

Quote:Let's not forget that many atheists here were believers at one time.

Sure, that's clear. It doesn't change the fact that their change might have been affected by their desires. 

I'm not saying it was -- I can't know what's in people's minds. Just that it would be normal human behavior to have desire affect conclusions.

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(March 20, 2019 at 7:22 am)Catharsis Wrote: I think their only purpose is to be annoying not looking for any answer.

It's certain that a lot of people don't want (or think they need) any more information than they have. 

I think it's more about fellowship and reinforcement. And that includes insulting people whom they perceive to be outside their group.

Recently one poster repeated the old canard that the authors of the Bible were Bronze Age goat herders. I pointed out to him that this is not historically correct. He acknowledged that he was wrong, and then put me on ignore because, he said, it takes the fun out of posting here if people correct his mistakes. 

So I found that refreshingly honest. He's here for fun, not truth.

(March 20, 2019 at 5:16 am)Belaqua Wrote:

(March 20, 2019 at 3:28 am)Catharsis Wrote: the creator being a wicked psychopath

I think you'll see from the replies that people here focus their not-belief on a very specific image of God. Basically a naive literalist reading of the early Old Testament. 

Though people are adamant that their not-belief extends to all the different images of God people have believed in, this is the one that they talk about. What William Blake called Nobodaddy. It doesn't matter that no theologian has ever agreed with that view. 

Sometimes it seems as if people formed a view of the Christian God when they were about 12 years old, decided it was bad, and stopped believing. It doesn't occur to them that a 12-year-old might not have the most well-informed judgment. 

I'm curious of your own view of this. Is there a way for you to describe your thoughts about what God is in a way that wouldn't require as many pages as Thomas Aquinas wrote? People here will insult you no matter what you say, so in that sense any reaction will be the same. But I'm curious.

Yeah, this is reminding me of a discussion that I tried to have with some folks about what they thought a world would be like if it were presided over by a loving god. They weren't able to have that discussion. And it wasn't their rationality that was preventing them from having that discussion. There were irrational factors that were preventing them from having that discussion.

I think it would be pretty cool if there were monstrous and loving gods, and gods who didn't give a fuck either way.

(March 20, 2019 at 3:28 am)Catharsis Wrote: When the sun rises over the good and the bad
and the rain pours on the righteous as well as the wicked,
wouldn't you wish there's a god?

Besides all ideas about the creator being a wicked psychopath

wouldn't you wish for a loving god?

No. What would be the point?

The life I have now is enough for me.

Same point as there being dragons and wizards and werewolves and unicorns and sea serpents and such.