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Being cannot come from Non-being
#11
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being
Who or what created God?

40:12 - Who created God?

Common atheist fallacies: exposed !!

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The universe had a beginning, and must, therefore, have been caused into being and created by something
If there ever was a time when nothing at all existed, then there would be absolutely nothing today.
It is an axiomatic truth that if nothing ever existed, then “nothing” would still be the ontological situation, for nothing simply remains nothing — forever! Nothing plus nothing equals nothing.
Since it is the case that something does now exist, one must logically conclude that something has existed always.
That “something” must be either physical or non-physical.
Since the physical universe came into existence at a finite time ago, the cause must be non-physical.
Another term for the “non-physical” would be “spirit.”
Therefore, that “something” must have existed eternally, and be and spiritual in nature. This being, we call God.

(November 20, 2019 at 12:27 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: So, according to you, nothing can’t come from nothing.

In that case where did this “eternal spirit” come into being?  What’s that?  It has always existed and is exempt from your claim number one?

How extraordinarily convenient.

Roger the Eternal Duck is also exempted.

Quack on!

(November 20, 2019 at 12:32 pm)Gae Bolga Wrote: Can you give us some info on the thorny problem of how to kickstart a universe -with- a supernatural creator?  

Nuts and bolts on how that wor
Can you give us some info on the thorny problem of how to kickstart a universe -with- a supernatural creator? 

Nuts and bolts on how that works?

I have no idea. But God creating the universe, is possible, even if we don't know, how. Nothing doing something is however impossible.
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#12
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being
Further proof that meth is not good for brain cells, especially if you only start out with 3 of them.
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#13
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being
The big bang model has incredibly detailed information on how this universe, as we see it, came to be as we see it, but the god hypothesis has no information whatsoever on the same?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#14
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being
So you have claims, a youtube video and 2 exclamation marks.

It must be true!

However, claims aren’t evidence, youtube videos are evidence that someone made a youtube video, and 2 exclamation marks is just bad punctuation.

Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:

"You did WHAT?  With WHO?  WHERE???"
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#15
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being
OP
How can you talk about causation and temporal processes in general once you leave the spacetime continuum? That sounds pretty nonsensical on the face of it.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition

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#16
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being
Complexity can easily arise from simplicity, just look at any iterative function, for example the Mandelbrot Set.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandelbrot_set
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#17
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being
I love that every religious person that claims that askong what created god is nonsense never actually explains why its nonsense
If you're frightened of dying, and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the Earth.
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#18
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being
Hello Otangelo!

So.

What are your thoughts on Hawking radiation and Nuclear decay?

Cheers.

Not at work
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#19
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being
There ya'll go agin, usin' them big words like that means sumthin'.
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#20
RE: Being cannot come from Non-being
(November 20, 2019 at 12:58 pm)Alex K Wrote: OP
How can you talk about causation and temporal processes in general once you leave the spacetime continuum? That sounds pretty nonsensical on the face of it.

[b]Timeless causation[/b]

W.L.Craig writes:

God must be causally, but not temporally, prior to the Big Bang. With the creation of the universe, time began, and God entered into time at the moment of creation in virtue of His real relations with the created order. It follows that God must, therefore, be timelesswithout the universe and temporal with the universe.


The cause of the Big Bang operated at to, that is, simultaneously (or coincidentally{1}) with the Big Bang. Philosophical discussions of causal directionality routinely treat simultaneous causation, the question being how to distinguish A as the cause and B as the effect when these occur together at the same time [Dummett and Flew (1954); Mackie (1966); Suchting (1968-69); Brier (1974), pp. 91-98; Brand (1979)].{2} Even on a mundane level, we regularly experience simultaneous causation; 


There must have been a point or transition from a timeless dimension, to a dimension in time. This transition could eventually have happened when God created the physical universe. But if it were so, he would have had to create the reality of heaven, and the heavenly creatures at the same time - since, even in a higher, different, or another dimension, as soon as there is action, movement, motion, there is time, space and matter ( even if in a different higher form with different properties ) 

We know that God created the heavens and the angels before He created the physical universe. The book of Job describes the angels worshipping God as He was creating the world: 

Job 38:4-7
"Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone - while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?".

And in Romans 8.29 we read:
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.

Ephesians 1.4:
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

To me, it seems reasonable to think of following"timeline":

- God existed in a timeless dimension, alone and changeless
- God created heaven, and the heavenly creatures, and moved from a timeless dimension, into time
- God created the physical universe
- This universe will be destroyed and replaced by a new one, which will be eternal

Physical properties have to exist in order for time to exist then time goes back before the Big bang, because, in order for there to be a big bang, there has to be both gravity and material, both of which have physical properties and both of which are manipulated by energy. Therefore, the notion that the creator spoke, or manipulated with energy, everything into existence. Thus, time literally began with the word(manipulation of energy) of God.
That being said, everything is made of energy which existed independently before time and, which under its own power, became an intelligent life form which can manipulate and organize its own energy and create physical material.
In the beginning was the word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
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