Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: December 13, 2024, 9:49 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Last Non-winter
RE: Last Non-winter
(April 5, 2020 at 11:21 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: If you're wondering how malthus was wrong in practice and in theory, OLB, the answer is simple.  He believed that human population always grows more rapidly than human food supply until war, disease, or famine reduced that pop.

Because he believed this, he predicted..in 1798.. that very soon™ the world pop would be hobbled and the survivors forced to live at the level of subsistence.  This is not what happened, because what he believed about pop growth -and- about food production..both turned out to be wrong.  In mere reality, not only were those predictions wrong, but population control measures that have been enacted, such as china's one child policy, simply did not produce the hoped for effects - they increased their resource consumption.   Meanwhile, people in wealthy countries organically decided to have fewer children (and..recall, they also emit more carbon, anyway).\

The only way that removing any number of the population could decrease carbon emissions, is if we targeted carbon emitters specifically..and then prevented the surviving people from picking up the carbon that the newly dead or un-born would have emitted.  Population control schemes, on the other hand, again in mere reality, have the effect of reducing a number of the population that contributes little if anything to the problem.
malthus failures are well documented and Neo-Malthusian theories kicked the bucket in the 90s  .But as i said a fanatic will hear no contradiction

 https://bigthink.com/Mind-Matters/popula...-was-wrong

https://www.vtcng.com/news_and_citizen/o...8282d.html

https://www.jstor.org/stable/43735423?seq=1
"Change was inevitable"


Nemo sicut deus debet esse!

[Image: Canada_Flag.jpg?v=1646203843]



 “No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM


      
Reply
RE: Last Non-winter
(April 5, 2020 at 11:21 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: If you're wondering how malthus was wrong in practice and in theory, OLB, the answer is simple.  He believed that human population always grows more rapidly than human food supply until war, disease, or famine reduced that pop.

Because he believed this, he predicted..in 1798.. that very soon™ the world pop would be hobbled and the survivors forced to live at the level of subsistence.  This is not what happened, because what he believed about pop growth -and- about food production..both turned out to be wrong.  In mere reality, not only were those predictions wrong, but population control measures that have been enacted, such as china's one child policy, simply did not produce the hoped for effects - they increased their resource consumption.   Meanwhile, people in wealthy countries organically decided to have fewer children (and..recall, they also emit more carbon, anyway).\

The only way that removing any number of the population could decrease carbon emissions, is if we targeted carbon emitters specifically..and then prevented the surviving people from picking up the carbon that the newly dead or un-born would have emitted.  Population control schemes, on the other hand, again in mere reality, have the effect of reducing a number of the population that contributes little if anything to the problem.
Your assessment is the same as a guy that jumped off a 100 story building -as he whistles past the 25th floor - "so far - so good".
Reply
RE: Last Non-winter
Quote:Your assessment is the same as a guy that jumped off a 100 story building -as he whistles past the 25th floor - "so far - so good".
Nope it's a good assessment 

Meanwhile your a guy who keeps being  shown a circle and then declares it a square
"Change was inevitable"


Nemo sicut deus debet esse!

[Image: Canada_Flag.jpg?v=1646203843]



 “No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM


      
Reply
RE: Last Non-winter
(April 5, 2020 at 12:09 pm)SUNGULA Wrote:
Quote:Your assessment is the same as a guy that jumped off a 100 story building -as he whistles past the 25th floor - "so far - so good".
Nope it's a good assessment 

Meanwhile your a guy who keeps being  shown a circle and then declares it a square

Nope... You are an idiot who thinks 2+2 = .75 of a fractured buttplug.
Reply
RE: Last Non-winter
(April 5, 2020 at 12:19 pm)onlinebiker Wrote:
(April 5, 2020 at 12:09 pm)SUNGULA Wrote: Nope it's a good assessment 

Meanwhile your a guy who keeps being  shown a circle and then declares it a square

Nope... You are an idiot who thinks 2+2 = .75 of a fractured buttplug.
Nope i'm the guy who has back everyone of my claims .You are a flat earther who preaches a long debunked ideology despite all he evidence , And somehow deludes himself he math is on his side . Anyway i,m done humoring your delusions you and Yukon Jack should form a club  because his creationism and your Neo Malthusian are the same level of crackpot ideology .
"Change was inevitable"


Nemo sicut deus debet esse!

[Image: Canada_Flag.jpg?v=1646203843]



 “No matter what men think, abortion is a fact of life. Women have always had them; they always have and they always will. Are they going to have good ones or bad ones? Will the good ones be reserved for the rich, while the poor women go to quacks?”
–SHIRLEY CHISHOLM


      
Reply
RE: Last Non-winter
Meh, I don;t think that there's any other ground that needs to be covered with respect to why malthus was wrong in principle and in fact. The guy got it demonstrably and historically wrong and that's all there is to it.

Modern day pop control nutjobs probably aren't influenced by any body of facts pertaining to that, though. More the case of how they view humans, as rats - for example. What do we do with a rat infestation? We exterminate them. It's an odd tick for a species full of members who have all been described by others as rats in need of extermination for the greater good.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
RE: Last Non-winter
(April 5, 2020 at 12:30 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Meh, I don;t think that there's any other ground that needs to be covered with respect to why malthus was wrong in principle and in fact.  The guy got it demonstrably and historically wrong and that's all there is to it.

Modern day pop control nutjobs probably aren't influenced by any body of facts pertaining to that, though.  More the case of how they view humans, as rats - for example.  What do we do with a rat infestation?  We exterminate them.  It's an odd tick for a species full of members who have all been described by others as rats in need of extermination for the greater good.
You have no facts.. You have a bunch of feel-good blatherings.

You're the band that plays on as the Titanic does it's thing.
Reply
RE: Last Non-winter
(April 5, 2020 at 1:06 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: You have no facts.. You have a bunch of feel-good blatherings.

You're the band that plays on as the Titanic does it's thing.

Malthus was wrong due to scaling in food production, medicine, famine and disease. Like locusts, whenever we run out of a resource, we either have a form of a mass die off or move onto something else. Also like locusts, we're not extinct.

There's little need for artificial population control when our economic model, greed, malfeasance, laziness and other bad characteristics provoke disaster after disaster, from war to environmental change. Even if artificial population control was introduced successfully, it would no doubt be infected by the same awful base behaviors that had previously rendered it unnecessary.

The problem isn't the population - it's fundamentally human nature. And until that is bettered, artificial population control would be but another nightmare in our already considerable repertoire of nightmares we inflict on each other as a people.
Slave to the Patriarchy no more
Reply
RE: Last Non-winter
Quote:You're the band that plays on as the Titanic does it's thing.
I think this is a great analogy.

I am on the titanic, and in the band, and we're playing a song called "stop, we're fucking up, there's an iceberg ahead". Whether or not the ship plows right into the iceberg is yet to be seen.

We don't act like locusts, or rodents, or a herd of deer - this was another one of malthus' fundamental misapprehensions which necessarily lead to his predictions being wrong - even within a few years of him making them.

IDK if it's really accurate to say that human nature is the problem - human nature covers alot. If it were, then it would be an unsolvable problem. I think that people working with a bad set of asserted facts in a high stakes context is more at play than anything. It's not as if people are out there deliberately trying to make life on earth more challenging for themselves. The reasons that we engage in poor ecological planning are bound up with things that any rational and empathetic person could understand. Rock and a hard place.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
RE: Last Non-winter
True, locusts don't fight wars with each other, mismanage pandemics and other absurdities only known to humans. 😉
Slave to the Patriarchy no more
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Last French Survivor of D-Day Leon Gautier dies at the age of 100 (Monday July 3rd) Leonardo17 0 470 July 8, 2023 at 7:33 am
Last Post: Leonardo17
  Well, that didn't last long...MyPillow guy fail. arewethereyet 4 911 November 13, 2022 at 1:04 am
Last Post: LinuxGal
  The last US military planes have left Afghanistan, marking the USA longest war. WinterHold 22 2373 August 31, 2021 at 6:48 am
Last Post: Jehanne
  Intimidation and defamation. Last desperate act. Brian37 16 2263 January 4, 2021 at 11:56 pm
Last Post: Fireball
  BREAKING:The exclusion of the UK and non-Schengen countries like Ireland from the ban WinterHold 6 966 March 14, 2020 at 6:49 pm
Last Post: Rev. Rye
  Non-discrimination for atheists Dr H 33 5759 February 26, 2019 at 10:00 pm
Last Post: fredd bear
  5 suspicious packages found in the last 24 hours Joods 188 18004 October 29, 2018 at 12:15 pm
Last Post: Gawdzilla Sama
  Saudi Reporter's last column. Free speech.... Brian37 9 1205 October 20, 2018 at 11:03 am
Last Post: DodosAreDead
  Trump says Saudi Arabia's King Salman 'would not last two weeks' without US support WinterHold 2 617 October 7, 2018 at 12:15 am
Last Post: Minimalist
  Non-religious countries experience greater economic growth Silver 1 398 July 22, 2018 at 10:00 pm
Last Post: Minimalist



Users browsing this thread: 5 Guest(s)