(July 16, 2020 at 12:07 pm)ModusPonens1 Wrote:

(July 16, 2020 at 12:05 pm)Gnomey Wrote: Someone who's "perfect" for you now may not be perfect for future you. In the future, you may meet someone perfect for future you.

This is the most profound thing I've read on this thread. Bar none. Now you've actually got me pondering rather than merely analyzing (my default state). Thank you!

---

(July 16, 2020 at 12:05 pm)Gnomey Wrote: Just because your next person isn't perfect for you, doesn't mean you won't find meaning in a relationship with them. Or, if you choose to remain single, you'll find happiness and meaning in that.

This is very wise. I also agree with it and my worrying about Future Me goes against my views on personal identity.

I guess it's just the case that irrational sadness about the past and irrational sadness about the future will either pass eventually or it won't. I am a great believer in fate, not in any hocus-pocus 'The One' way, but in a determinist way. And shooting what I already believe in back at me, in your own words, helps me ponder and also helps me disabuse myself of discontentment. Thank you once again.

Happy to help in any small way. Best of luck, and keep truckin'! In deterministic terms, what will happen will happen, and there's nothing you can do to change it, so you might as well go with the flow and experience life as it comes. :-)

(July 16, 2020 at 12:05 pm)Gnomey Wrote:

(July 16, 2020 at 10:40 am)ModusPonens1 Wrote: But I can't imagine that girlfriend having enough of the other wonderful qualities that she has. There's just no way I'll ever meet anybody better than her. It's logically possible. But it's so incredibly unlikely.

Okay, let me ask a more specific question. Hypothetically, if you were to accept my premise that I really will never meet somebody as wonderful for me as her ... then what?

Remember, you change too! Someone who's "perfect" for you now may not be perfect for future you. In the future, you may meet someone perfect for future you, and she may be completely different than the person who was perfect for present you.

Interesting point. Post divorce my own kids inevitably played the "get mom and dad back together" game. Now they are gone so far the other way that I find myself defending her to them even though she could go die in a fire as far as I am concerned.

For whatever reason, she went down some uber conservative rabbit hole. Pissed me off and then pissed the kids off some years later.

Give a dating site a whirl, match, ashley madison, grinder,.................

(July 15, 2020 at 6:23 pm)ModusPonens1 Wrote: If you find the perfect match for you romantic relationship-wise but then you lose them ... then what?

In all seriousness, our species didn't evolve to the religious social norms of paring. Certainly paring happens. But the truth is for most, most humans go through multiple partners throughout our lives.

Mind you, I am not addressing moral reasons or sexuall preference or spread of desease.  The truth is the utopia of finding your soulmate and sticking with them your entire life is  utopia. It can and does happen sure, but it is not the norm.

Humans in general, even between friendships and co workers do it for a while and move on. 

You can think of relationships like your favorite food. It is great, but if you eat it every day, eventually you want something else for a change. 

I have had lots of relationships, enjoyed most of them, but I am long beyond blame. Some things work out, other things don't. And it should not be a slight on anyone if people part company. 

I love the movie Scare Face. But I also love Jaws. I also love Beaches, and Mulan. But how many would simply watch the same movie over and over and over. 

It is sweet when we hear stories of lifetime love. I won't deny it is appealing. But it is far worse to stay in a loveless relationship that started out as a cruise on The Love Boat, if over time the feelings change, and you get tired of the meal you are eating. 

I think it is far more rational to simply go into a relationship enjoying it and also knowing it doesn't have to become WW3 or suicide if it doesn't last.

(July 16, 2020 at 7:17 pm)brewer Wrote: Give a dating site a whirl, match, ashley madison, grinder,.................

I don't think promoting Ashley Madison is a good idea. For one thing, it's built on facilitating affairs between married people, which wouldn't bother me as much if not for the fact that this seems to be the exact opposite situation the OP is in. For another, literally everything I've heard about AM suggests there's an absurdly high male-to-female ratio of the user base. Even without the morally eyebrow-raising gimmick, this cannot bode well for your chances.

(July 16, 2020 at 7:47 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote:

(July 16, 2020 at 7:17 pm)brewer Wrote: Give a dating site a whirl, match, ashley madison, grinder,.................

I don't think promoting Ashley Madison is a good idea. For one thing, it's built on facilitating affairs between married people, which wouldn't bother me as much if not for the fact that this seems to be the exact opposite situation the OP is in. For another, literally everything I've heard about AM suggests there's an absurdly high male-to-female ratio of the user base. Even without the morally eyebrow-raising gimmick, this cannot bode well for your chances.

(July 16, 2020 at 7:32 pm)Brian37 Wrote: The truth is the utopia of finding your soulmate and sticking with them your entire life is  utopia. It can and does happen sure, but it is not the norm.

So true. But what is so sad, for me, is that I had such a rare utopia but lost it. So then, on that premise, my question is: now what?

---

(July 16, 2020 at 8:27 pm)brewer Wrote:

(July 16, 2020 at 7:47 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: I don't think promoting Ashley Madison is a good idea. For one thing, it's built on facilitating affairs between married people, which wouldn't bother me as much if not for the fact that this seems to be the exact opposite situation the OP is in. For another, literally everything I've heard about AM suggests there's an absurdly high male-to-female ratio of the user base. Even without the morally eyebrow-raising gimmick, this cannot bode well for your chances.

I don't see how anything went over his head. It's simply true that AM couldn't apply to my situation any less.

(July 17, 2020 at 3:49 am)ModusPonens1 Wrote:

(July 16, 2020 at 7:32 pm)Brian37 Wrote: The truth is the utopia of finding your soulmate and sticking with them your entire life is  utopia. It can and does happen sure, but it is not the norm.

So true. But what is so sad, for me, is that I had such a rare utopia but lost it. So then, on that premise, my question is: now what?

---

(July 16, 2020 at 8:27 pm)brewer Wrote:

I don't see how anything went over his head. It's simply true that AM couldn't apply to my situation any less.

What is goodness?

(July 16, 2020 at 11:38 am)ModusPonens1 Wrote:

(July 16, 2020 at 11:35 am)tackattack Wrote: You don't expect to have time in your entire life for more than 10 meaningful relationships. I get that. 10 out of how many possible relationships could you have 100,000? The ting about a "meaningful relationship" is it's not an object that starts that way. It starts off as a relationship and grows more meaningful.

It's not which of those 10 meaningful relationships was the perfect/best one. It's which of those 100,000 relationships did you invest enough in to make it meaningful.

Thank you for the thoughts but I am still not following. I still would like to know if it's a fair assessment of what you're saying to point out that you see the 10 relationships branching off into 100,000 possible ones because you're not a determinist.

Because to me, as a determinist, if I can expect to have about a maximum of 10 actual relationships then I can expect to have about a maximum of 10 possible relationships.

well I am a soft determinist on a lot of things.  Let me see if I can be more precise. You expect to have a maximum of 10 actual relationships. It doesn't necessarily follow that the maximum possible relationships are 10 as well. You're not factoring in the time to build relationships or the opportunities that you are probably blind to. 

I'm positing that there are 100000 possible relationships you could have, but you only have time and energy to devote to making 10 of those actual and meaningful relationships. If you find building relationships to be meaningful, as an exercise and of itself, then there can be joy in exploring the 99,990. It might surprise you how many people out there could be a match. One of the things hunkering down in a relationship and a routine does for us is it focuses our attention on the person to improve qualitative communication. This addes blinders to the quantitative possibilities outside our current focus. I hope that clears up my stance and I hope you're not too depressed about your situation.

(July 17, 2020 at 10:28 am)brewer Wrote:

(July 17, 2020 at 3:49 am)ModusPonens1 Wrote: So true. But what is so sad, for me, is that I had such a rare utopia but lost it. So then, on that premise, my question is: now what?

---

I don't see how anything went over his head. It's simply true that AM couldn't apply to my situation any less.

What is goodness?

I don't see how that's relevant to what he said. It's still true that AM isn't appropriate for me merely from what I said I was interested in and from what I said my situation is. Regardless of how we conceive of goodness or whether it's subjective or objective, etc. Quoting a separate topic that a started in a completely separate thread and throwing back at me doesn't make your suggestion any less inappropriate.

---

(July 17, 2020 at 10:42 am)tackattack Wrote: well I am a soft determinist on a lot of things.  Let me see if I can be more precise. You expect to have a maximum of 10 actual relationships. It doesn't necessarily follow that the maximum possible relationships are 10 as well. You're not factoring in the time to build relationships or the opportunities that you are probably blind to.

But I've already factored in the fact that I could have more than 10 relationships in my life or less than 10. Having a lot more than 10 doesn't seem realistic. 10 seems like a reasonable average.

And it certainly is the case that if I will[' have a maximum of 10 relationships then the bond doesn't contain more than 10 people.

Quote:I'm positing that there are 100000 possible relationships you could have, but you only have time and energy to devote to making 10 of those actual and meaningful relationships.

But I'm talking about actual meaningful relationships. I'm not talking about just mere people I meet or interact with.

So I'll put it this way: if I am only able to have the time and energy to devote to making 10 of my relationships meaningful, as you suggest, then the pool of meaingful relationships is merely 10.

Quote:If you find building relationships to be meaningful, as an exercise and of itself, then there can be joy in exploring the 99,990. It might surprise you how many people out there could be a match.

Attempting to build a relationship and failing is overall a frustration for me. I'm interested in my actually successful attempts at having meaningful relationships which, like you say, could indeed be 10, as I suggest. I'm not interested in my failed attempts. Even if I enjoy building relationships .... I enjoy it merely because I have the false hope for the relationship to become meaningful. And it's false hope in all but 10 occasions.

Quote: One of the things hunkering down in a relationship and a routine does for us is it focuses our attention on the person to improve qualitative communication. This addes blinders to the quantitative possibilities outside our current focus. I hope that clears up my stance and I hope you're not too depressed about your situation.

I'm still not understanding. I also don't know what you mean by a soft determinist. Unless you mean you're a compatabilist?

It is still the case that you seem to be conceding that it may be realistic to say that I'll successfully build 10 actual meaningful relationships. And this is what I mean by saying that it's not far-fetched at all for it to be the case that I've already had the most meaningful of those 10. So, they may be meaningful, but the rest may indeed all be second best. And we're such a crazily good match that it's not at all unrealistic, as far as I'm, concerned, that I've already found the best of those 10.

And, sure the remaining 7 are still actually meaningful (this was my 3rd) ... but more meaningful than being single? I don't think so.

Why? Because just as the bad times can help us appreciate the good times ... the very good times can prevent us from appreciating the moderately good times. The fact that I have very, very, very likely found the best relationship I will ever have, already, .... makes me unable to appreciate the future relationships and thereby makes me better off being single and keeps me depressed.

I am depressed. But, I'm not too depressed.

I'll be happy if she gets back with me. I'll remain depressed if she doesn't. For the rest of my life. But I'll still be okay. I won't feel okay. But I'll be okay. I'll stay alive and I'll stay out of hospital.

Sure, I won't be fit for work. But I'll get by.