(August 8, 2020 at 4:42 pm)Belacqua Wrote: I'm not a Christian.

OK (a little hard to tell if your badge says "Religious Views: Um..."). Why do you feel to be a expert on this subject then? The question is for Christians. Is it not it presumptuous of you to know better then christians what christians think (on your own logic)?

(August 8, 2020 at 4:42 pm)Belacqua Wrote: Earlier you said you were interested in debate, but if you're not going to address the real claims made by intelligent Christians then you're not debating seriously. Lots of exclamation points don't help.

What a bizarre thing to say.
This is the first question and now I await a response from a christian. This is how debate works.

You sure emulate a christian really good by coming up with nonsense words like a real christian. The "muh experts" is not a real argument considering that these experts behave as crazy as you can get. My favorite christian expert is the one who wasted a hour of debate on the subject of "did jesus resurrect from the dead?" on talking about "is the supernatural real ?" are these your "experts" you want to stand on? What was more there? The broken and paranoid schizophrenic Blaze Pascal? Yes smart people have mental break downs. What about the atheist scientist who after seeing 3 frozen waterfalls did have a epiphany and realized the trinity and became a christian? Are these your experts? What about the guy who talks to god and god told him to write gods operating system? Was an atheist then god started talking to him. Its named schizophrenia.

(August 8, 2020 at 4:42 pm)Belacqua Wrote: of exclamation points don't help.

Since you are not a christian I explain the things you don't know about. You implied that god can not do these things, something that destroys 99.99999% of modern Christians and is something they will never accept. I'm not really interested in debating the god concept of that one smart guy who did have a nervous breakdown and is a paranoid schizophrenic now who is talking to god and his god concept is something totally alien to 99.9999999999% of all Christians. They can hang out with the time cube guy.

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(August 8, 2020 at 6:42 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Dangerous hippy mindset...hmmm.

Interesting comment.  Skepticism still on full alert.

Yep. I don't know how to name it otherwise. everyone should be interested in what is true and what is not and this is my stance. Basically lies and falsehoods need to be countered. I can explain further if you are interested.

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(August 8, 2020 at 9:27 pm)Grandizer Wrote: I sort of disagree with this. From my reading, some of the people you listed did believe in the kind of God that came down to earth in flesh and interacted with people in human/"superhuman" ways. But perhaps I've been mistaken about them. I'm thinking Augustine and Aquinas specifically. Did they not believe in the Incarnation in a literal sense?

This is a valid objection.
However I designed the question in a way to not be sidetracked by christian subject changes, you notice that now the debate turns into "did Augustine and Aquinas actually believe that God came down to earth in flesh? "

I welcome all religions and god concepts its not on me to know what is in the head of religionists( I think I figured out 99.9999% of them) they are welcome to come with whatever god concept they want; and tell me how it can be falsified.

God the mindless force that holds the universe together? Lets go!
God the particle? Lets go!

If it can be falsified then tell me how.


Its a simple question and staying on point is the most important part.

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(August 8, 2020 at 11:47 pm)Paleophyte Wrote: I'm not a Christian and never believed in the Bible, but history is replete with examples of Christians who decided that the Bible was false because it didn't agree with their beliefs or otherwise got in the way. Many simply "reinterpret" or ignore the inconvenient bits but sometimes they're too problematic so they chuck the whole lot out and go with their whatever their faith cooks up. King James I chucked out a couple of books when he got tired of beheading wives. Joseph Smith left he entire lot behind when he cooked up his own scripture, give or take the bits he stole.

This is a very important observation.
I know hat there is the verbal folklore of christieanity and what the bible actually says.
I also know that prophets/leaders will simply throw out or change the bible to fit whatever they are saying and most christians don't really really take the bible seriously.

For modern drama check out the NIV who decided to change numerical errors from the KJV to not make the bible ridiculous and also simply removed passages they did not like we are talking the bible passages go like this 1 2 3 7 8 9 (oh the drama this creates).

For fun trolling check this out the protestants threw out 7 books from the original bible.
Original bible 73 books
-7 = 66 books (66?! THE number of the BEAST! SATAN!) (use this to troll christians)

And they did not like the 7 books because they talk about infant baptism and the existence of purgatory.
It was always like this in religion the OT texts also have remnants of things that got removed see leviathan
However challenging the whole christian thing is important.

It’s rather bizarre that you keep decrying Christians for changing the subject when you’ve done that yourself. You’ve gone from ‘The Bible is false’ to ‘God doesn’t exist’.

While both position are very likely to be true and are not necessarily mutually exclusive, they are different subjects (other posters have tried to explain this to you).

Boru

(August 9, 2020 at 5:21 am)Xaventis Wrote: Since you are not a christian I explain the things you don't know about. 

An atheist can study what Christians think. A Jew can study what Hindus think. I know a Buddhist who's one of the world's leading experts on the medieval Muslim world. It's not accurate to assume that atheists only know what atheists think. 

I have studied Christian thought quite a bit. 

Quote:You implied that god can not do these things

No I didn't. Please read more carefully. 

I said that most educated Christians wouldn't expect or demand God to do those things, or declare that such things are required for belief. 

Quote:something that destroys 99.99999% of modern Christians and is something they will never accept. 

I doubt the accuracy of your figure.

Anyway, neither truth nor quality are determined by popularity or the percentages of belief. 

Quote:I'm not really interested in debating the god concept of that one smart guy who did have a nervous breakdown and is a paranoid schizophrenic now who is talking to god and his god concept is something totally alien to 99.9999999999% of all Christians. 

You seem to be dividing the whole Christian world into those people who see God as Superman, and one smart guy who went insane. This is not accurate. 

It's important not to reduce a huge and diverse group of people down to one cartoonish straw man version. Christian thought includes a wide variety of views. Just because you used to believe the silliest version doesn't mean that everyone does.

No longer a Christian but what changed me from Catholic to ex-Catholic was reading the bible.

(August 9, 2020 at 5:44 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: It’s rather bizarre that you keep decrying Christians for changing the subject when you’ve done that yourself. You’ve gone from ‘The Bible is false’ to ‘God doesn’t exist’.

While both position are very likely to be true and are not necessarily mutually exclusive, they are different subjects (other posters have tried to explain this to you).

Boru

Eh. I restate the question its about falsifying the religion of the religionist,
"What evidence will it take for you to be convinced that your religion is false" I did say that the bible is intertwined in this and you are simply splitting hairs.

(August 9, 2020 at 5:44 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: While both position are very likely to be true and are not necessarily mutually exclusive, they are different subjects

This is hair splitting I can find you 10 Christians who literally will say "prove to me that the bible is false" as a response to "What evidence will it take for you to be convinced that your religion is false" I simply included it there to guide them in the right direction.
Meaning if they require me to prove the bible is false to prove god is false the question is what do they need to realize the bible is false.

You are splitting hairs the subject of christienaity and the bible is convoluted however in the same direction as the question for CHRISTIANS since you are not a christian I don't know why you so obsessively want to argue this hair splitting.

This reminds me of the changing of "is jesus god?" to "is jesus divine?" since not all christians are trinitarians or believe that jesus is god for example JWs. you can deal with this you know what the general subject is discard the questions who are N/A.
Only its a question for CHRISTIANS !

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(August 9, 2020 at 5:54 am)The Valkyrie Wrote: No longer a Christian but what changed me from Catholic to ex-Catholic was reading the bible.

I like more information on what exactly this process was. And what key subjects triggered this change.

(August 9, 2020 at 5:21 am)Xaventis Wrote: most christians don't really really take the bible seriously.

Most Christians do take the Bible seriously, though they may apply different hermeneutical systems in reading it. 

James I never beheaded a wife. 

The number of the Beast is not 66. 

This is a pretty wild thread. I think it would be better to write more true things.

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(August 9, 2020 at 5:58 am)Xaventis Wrote: Only its a question for CHRISTIANS !

This is an atheist forum. It's not the place to get answers from Christians.

(August 9, 2020 at 5:58 am)Xaventis Wrote:

(August 9, 2020 at 5:44 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: It’s rather bizarre that you keep decrying Christians for changing the subject when you’ve done that yourself. You’ve gone from ‘The Bible is false’ to ‘God doesn’t exist’.

While both position are very likely to be true and are not necessarily mutually exclusive, they are different subjects (other posters have tried to explain this to you).

Boru

Eh. I restate the question its about falsifying the religion of the religionist,
"What evidence will it take for you to be convinced that your religion is false" I did say that the bible is intertwined in this and you are simply splitting hairs.

(August 9, 2020 at 5:44 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: While both position are very likely to be true and are not necessarily mutually exclusive, they are different subjects

This is hair splitting I can find you 10 Christians who literally will say "prove to me that the bible is false" as a response to "What evidence will it take for you to be convinced that your religion is false" I simply included it there to guide them in the right direction.
Meaning if they require me to prove the bible is false to prove god is false the question is what do they need to realize the bible is false.

You are splitting hairs the subject of christienaity and the bible is convoluted however in the same direction as the question for CHRISTIANS since you are not a christian I don't know why you so obsessively want to argue this hair splitting.

This reminds me of the changing of "is jesus god?" to "is jesus divine?" since not all christians are trinitarians or believe that jesus is god for example JWs. you can deal with this you know what the general subject is discard the questions who are N/A.
Only its a question for CHRISTIANS !

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(August 9, 2020 at 5:54 am)The Valkyrie Wrote: No longer a Christian but what changed me from Catholic to ex-Catholic was reading the bible.

I like more information on what exactly this process was. And what key subjects triggered this change.

It’s neither hair splitting nor convoluted. It’s perfectly possible that God exists and that the Bible is false. As was already mentioned, you are trying to equate the existence of God with stories about God. This is absolutely a change of subject.

The same is true about any particular religion - God could easily exist even though all religions are false. Imagine for a moment that no ‘holy’ books had ever been written, and that not a single person who ever lived had any god-belief whatsoever. Even this would not preclude the existence of gods.

I think you’ve backed yourself into an argumentative corner.

Boru

(August 9, 2020 at 6:01 am)Belacqua Wrote: The number of the Beast is not 66.

True however the bible math some Christians use makes my conclusions look reasonable and sane want me to make it 666? Watch this !
66 books; man was created on the 6 day so 6 is the number of man.
Man threw out 7 books from the bible so its 66 for books and 6 for man so its 666.

Did you see that one where Bill Gates name is calculated to the 666 (By Christians!)?

I made this one up on my own however did someone else see it in the wild by Christians?

Numerology crosses religious boundaries.

(August 9, 2020 at 6:54 am)Xaventis Wrote:

(August 9, 2020 at 6:01 am)Belacqua Wrote: The number of the Beast is not 66.

True however the bible math some Christians use makes my conclusions look reasonable and sane want me to make it 666? Watch this !
66 books; man was created on the 6 day so 6 is the number of man.
Man threw out 7 books from the bible so its 66 for books and 6 for man so its 666.

Did you see that one where Bill Gates name is calculated to the 666 (By Christians!)?

I made this one up on my own however did someone else see it in the wild by Christians?

Protestant Bibles have 66 books, Catholic Bibles have 73, the Eastern Orthodox Bible has 78. The number of apocryphal works varies similarly.

Boru