(November 10, 2020 at 12:17 pm)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: But.... you mentioned that your diety does bad things for their own "We (The humans) can't know the 'Why' of it." reasons?

Or did I miss read your post?

Not at work.

I thought I clarified this. I was simply referring to how God accomplishes His plan in us being a mystery at times because there are things that will happen in our lives that don't make sense at first, but make sense once He reveals the reason behind their occurrence. It can seem counter-intuitive at times, but ultimately God knows what He is doing. That's all I was saying.

His overall plan for the world is a mystery to those who don't understand the purpose of evil, which you can read about here if you like:

https://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings...f-evil.htm

(November 10, 2020 at 1:04 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Some cosmological theories posit that the universe had no ultimate beginning, it's always been around in some form. The math works and it doesn't violate what we know of physics. What we can get our minds around doesn't seem to have much bearing on what actually is.

This is just a bunch of garbage. The simple fact of the matter is that there is no reason for anything at all to exist without God as an explanation. Nothing has no reason to do anything, can't create anything, can't exist as anything other than nothing. To posit that the universe, which has no will or awareness, could ever exist on its own is patently ridiculous. God makes sense because He is supernatural and truly unbound by physics or math or whatever other form of science you wish to call upon. He is the only rational explanation for the existence of the universe, and anyone who claims otherwise is in denial or totally deluded.

(November 10, 2020 at 2:50 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Wow, makes you sound rather god-like. You certainly have a high opinion of yourself.

Jesus Christ Himself called the saints gods: Jesus replied, “Is it not written in your Law: ‘I have said you are gods’...(John 10:34)

Not that I have a high opinion of myself. You mistake confidence for arrogance, and my confidence isn't even in myself, but in Jesus Christ.

(November 10, 2020 at 11:57 am)MilesAbbott81 Wrote:

(November 10, 2020 at 11:15 am)onlinebiker Wrote: "The lord works in mysterious ways" is a euphorism for "Fucked if I know - but I ain't admitting that I don't".

If you would honestly read what I wrote, you'd know that isn't what I said.

But just in case I wasn't clear, I will elaborate just a bit.

Sometimes things happen that we don't understand until we've suffered enough or until some effect occurs due to the event which we couldn't have possibly foreseen. That's the real mystery. God does, at least generally, give us to understand why certain events have happened to us or why they didn't happen to us, eventually. The significant events in our lives He will almost certainly explain to us if we're following His path and not our own. The key is patience and faith. Many just get disgusted and give up because they don't understand and don't actually believe God will give them understanding down the road.

ANYONE claiming to know what God is doing before or while He is doing something is almost invariably going to be flat out wrong, because His ways are mysterious. That doesn't mean they remain forever mysterious to those on the righteous path.

Those who walk their own path will not be enlightened so long as they stay on that path. You'll just flail about in darkness while you shake your fist at the sky in defiance. At least, until God saves you, which He eventually will do for everyone, in this life or the next.

This sounds an awful lot like Drich's prosperity gospel. "If you've got a BMW in your garage, you are doing it right. Otherwise you're a sinner."

---

(November 10, 2020 at 8:21 pm)MilesAbbott81 Wrote: Not that I have a high opinion of myself. You mistake confidence for arrogance, and my confidence isn't even in myself, but in Jesus Christ.

Confidence becomes arrogance when it is over-confidence.

(November 10, 2020 at 11:14 pm)Angrboda Wrote: This sounds an awful lot like Drich's prosperity gospel.  "If you've got a BMW in your garage, you are doing it right.  Otherwise you're a sinner."

If that is his gospel, then it's wrong, of course, but only because it's referring to the physical and not the spiritual. Of course the one on the correct path will eventually achieve spiritual prosperity (that's not to say physical blessings don't accompany the spiritual, but they don't necessarily).

And we're all sinners, but there are some key differences between the impenitent and penitent sinner. The impenitent clings to his sins and excuses them at all cost. The penitent receives correction when made aware of his sin, then repents (changes his ways), not to commit that sin any more once God provides the grace to do so.

(November 10, 2020 at 11:14 pm)Angrboda Wrote: Confidence becomes arrogance when it is over-confidence.

True, but how can you identify over-confidence? You think you can spot it in me, not knowing anything about me, merely reading a few sentences I've written on an online forum (not saying you are accusing me, but it does look that way)? Cynicism can be a very ugly trait.

Or is it that you are over-confident in pointing the finger at someone who may very well be completely correct in everything he is saying? Do you know otherwise? If so, how?

(November 10, 2020 at 11:45 pm)MilesAbbott81 Wrote:

(November 10, 2020 at 11:14 pm)Angrboda Wrote: Confidence becomes arrogance when it is over-confidence.

True, but how can you identify over-confidence? You think you can spot it in me, not knowing anything about me, merely reading a few sentences I've written on an online forum (not saying you are accusing me, but it does look that way)? Cynicism can be a very ugly trait.

Or is it that you are over-confident in pointing the finger at someone who may very well be completely correct in everything he is saying? Do you know otherwise? If so, how?

You're overthinking this. I didn't say anything about you. I just pointed out a fact. Are you always this defensive?

And I'll also point out that arewethereyet didn't say you were arrogant either, only that you appeared to have a high opinion of yourself. Nothing wrong with that if deserved. Again, are you always this defensive?

(November 10, 2020 at 8:21 pm)MilesAbbott81 Wrote:

(November 10, 2020 at 12:17 pm)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: But.... you mentioned that your diety does bad things for their own "We (The humans) can't know the 'Why' of it." reasons?

Or did I miss read your post?

Not at work.

I thought I clarified this. I was simply referring to how God accomplishes His plan in us being a mystery at times because there are things that will happen in our lives that don't make sense at first, but make sense once He reveals the reason behind their occurrence. It can seem counter-intuitive at times, but ultimately God knows what He is doing. That's all I was saying.

His overall plan for the world is a mystery to those who don't understand the purpose of evil, which you can read about here if you like:

https://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings...f-evil.htm

  Right. So it is all some big mystery untill people POSTHOC work their minds around in some weird @rsed ways of thinking so that the events make sense. (Genrally to them which they then try and convince other of).

So.

Child dies of cancer? Diety's mysterious ways.

OR,

Military Tyrant's genocide of people? Diety's mysterious ways.

 You'll note that the diety's mysterious ways must be different for both of the above events? That said 'Mysterious ways' have to keep being invented for all the new and diverse things that wreck life in general.

Earth shattering calamity wipes out life? Diety's mysterious ways.

OR

 Person's life adversly impacted by 'Collision'/'Fall trama'/'paper cut'.

Again, the mysterious ways just keep mulitplying all because the qualities attributed to the diety MUST (Some how) remain the same all the while new ariable things keep happening.

 

So... please, lets hear the posthoc rational for babies and children getting cancer.

Am sure it'll make sense. Look forwards to the reply on that one.

Not at work.

Not at work.

(November 11, 2020 at 12:02 am)Angrboda Wrote: You're overthinking this.  I didn't say anything about you.  I just pointed out a fact.  Are you always this defensive?

And I'll also point out that arewethereyet didn't say you were arrogant either, only that you appeared to have a high opinion of yourself.  Nothing wrong with that if deserved.  Again, are you always this defensive?

I'm not overthinking this. My comments are based on my experiences here, which constantly have involved hostile comments. I have little doubt that you or arewethereyet have already made up your minds about me (and most religious people), though if you were paying attention I did give you the benefit of the doubt, and am at least willing to extend the same to arewethereyet.

But in fact, I do remember some hostile comments from you in particular under your previous user name, so perhaps you don't deserve that courtesy. Granted, my own comments have been hostile in the past, but they were purely a reaction to the the evil attitudes I've witnessed from the majority of people here identifying as atheist/agnostic.

I'm always willing to encounter a theist who is the exception to the religious community rule. However, the only one who was ever like that no longer posts here.

(November 11, 2020 at 10:05 am)MilesAbbott81 Wrote:

(November 11, 2020 at 12:02 am)Angrboda Wrote: You're overthinking this.  I didn't say anything about you.  I just pointed out a fact.  Are you always this defensive?

And I'll also point out that arewethereyet didn't say you were arrogant either, only that you appeared to have a high opinion of yourself.  Nothing wrong with that if deserved.  Again, are you always this defensive?

I'm not overthinking this. My comments are based on my experiences here, which constantly have involved hostile comments. I have little doubt that you or arewethereyet have already made up your minds about me (and most religious people), though if you were paying attention I did give you the benefit of the doubt, and am at least willing to extend the same to arewethereyet.

But in fact, I do remember some hostile comments from you in particular under your previous user name, so perhaps you don't deserve that courtesy. Granted, my own comments have been hostile in the past, but they were purely a reaction to the the evil attitudes I've witnessed from the majority of people here identifying as atheist/agnostic.

That's quite the contortionist act. You claim that you gave me the benefit of the doubt, except for the fact that you didn't because you followed that with a "but" which basically erases what comes before it. And I'm a bad person for having been hostile in the past, but when you were hostile it was because you had Reasons[tm]. I see how this works. It's all, "heads I win, tails you lose." And you think the hostility toward you is a result of their behavior, not yours? How self-serving. Maybe you should accept some responsibility for the type of responses your behavior generates.

As to whether I was hostile or not, I was simply pointing out that positing confidence and arrogance as being opposed is a false dichotomy. You're the one who took it and ran with it into your paranoid fantasies. Arewethereyet didn't accuse you of anything but having a high opinion of yourself. And look at all this sauce.

(November 11, 2020 at 1:12 am)Peebo-Thuhlu Wrote: Right. So it is all some big mystery untill people POSTHOC work their minds around in some weird @rsed ways of thinking so that the events make sense. (Genrally to them which they then try and convince other of).

So.

Child dies of cancer? Diety's mysterious ways.

OR,

Military Tyrant's genocide of people? Diety's mysterious ways.

 You'll note that the diety's mysterious ways must be different for both of the above events? That said 'Mysterious ways' have to keep being invented for all the new and diverse things that wreck life in general.

Earth shattering calamity wipes out life? Diety's mysterious ways.

OR

 Person's life adversly impacted by 'Collision'/'Fall trama'/'paper cut'.

Again, the mysterious ways just keep mulitplying all because the qualities attributed to the diety MUST (Some how) remain the same all the while new ariable things keep happening.

 

So... please, lets hear the posthoc rational for babies and children getting cancer.

Am sure it'll make sense. Look forwards to the reply on that one.

Not at work.

Not at work.

Yes, you atheists and agnostics always seem to bring this up as your ultimate argument for why God can't possibly exist, or why if He does then He is evil. Did you not read the article I linked to? Here it is again: https://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings...f-evil.htm

Since I'm doubting you or others will actually take the time to read it, then I'll explain why babies and children suffer terribly.

They suffer terribly because of sin. Parents can bring terrible consequences upon their children, and as the Lord makes clear, He brings suffering upon the children to the 3rd and 4th generations, until the last pennies are paid for that sin.

Yes, it's tragic, and it's often a horrifying and terrifying thing to behold. It's also a reason why you should fear the Lord.

Some will say, well if God is merciful and good, then why allow such things to happen? We're not here to "eat, drink, and be merry." We're here to learn the difference between good and evil, and to learn to choose the good. That doesn't happen easily. We must suffer the consequences of our sins in order to be saved. That is simply how this process of salvation works. It's the cross; crucifixion. It's agony, but necessary agony.

I will add that often, the deaths of children are mercy. There are enormous numbers of people unfit to be parents, under whom a child is surely going to be raised to be truly wicked. The more wicked a child is, the greater its suffering through the cross is going to be. Have you ever tried to correct a spoiled child, for instance? It's a nightmare. I should know, having been one myself. I wish I'd been aborted, honestly, and raised in a household that enforced discipline. Salvation is easier for those fortunate enough to have grown up in such an environment.

No one likes to hear all of this, but it's the truth. You'll hate me and God for it, at the unfairness of it, but keep in mind that all is well that ends well. No one suffers forever; God saves all eventually, whether in this life or the next. But suffering is a necessary part of the plan...no way to get around it.

Those claiming that "accepting Christ" and that simply asking for forgiveness of sins is the way of salvation are deluded. The cross is the only way.

One last thing I will mention. If you think it's unfair for the innocent to suffer, then consider that Jesus Christ, Who was as innocent as they come, willingly laid down His life and suffered perhaps the most horrible possible way to die. He has partaken of this suffering just as we have. The people who deserve the blame are the ones committing the sins: us.

(November 11, 2020 at 10:22 am)MilesAbbott81 Wrote: Yes, you atheists and agnostics always seem to bring this up as your ultimate argument for why God can't possibly exist, or why if He does then He is evil. Did you not read the article I linked to? Here it is again: https://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings...f-evil.htm

That's called a biased source. Untrustworthy.