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RE: How far reaching are God's powers?
November 19, 2020 at 11:04 am
The universe may have been caused by a quantum vacuum fluctuation. The math works and it doesn't violate the laws of physics as we know them or contradict what we can observe of the universe. That doesn't mean it's true, there are multiple hypotheses for the origin of the universe that can meet the same criteria. The other scientific hypotheses for how the universe began (if it did in fact begin instead of existing eternally in some form or another) are also all natural causes.
I can see being grateful that there was a natural cause that resulted in the universe and allowed me to exist; but I don't see any utility in calling it God and worshiping it. That's the very reason it matters whether the origin of the universe is due to a what or a who.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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RE: How far reaching are God's powers?
November 19, 2020 at 12:25 pm
(This post was last modified: November 19, 2020 at 12:30 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I suspect that any being who intentionally created this universe as it is out of any other universe that it could have created is going to have more to atone for than to be thanked for.
One wonders why, if the universe as we see it is not problematic, have all of these religions been invented to fix it, to remedy those defects.
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RE: How far reaching are God's powers?
November 19, 2020 at 12:58 pm
(November 18, 2020 at 8:06 pm)Sound Of Reason Wrote: (November 18, 2020 at 6:40 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Can it be whatever created everything, or does it have to be a whoever?
I have answered this question, and it only proves that you didn't understand because you have the wrong perception.
It doesn't matter if WCE is a who or a what, and it doesn't mean anything. they are just interrogation pronouns. They're only useful to make you understand. They're not to be taken literally. People made those pronouns to distinguish the nature of beings. We call WCE a being because if we don't call him something, we will not talk, but in fact, we don't know if he's a being or not. Basically, his effects are the beings in this world.
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RE: How far reaching are God's powers?
November 19, 2020 at 1:29 pm
God’s powers are sufficient to reach into the bank accounts of his supplicants.
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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RE: How far reaching are God's powers?
November 19, 2020 at 8:18 pm
(November 19, 2020 at 7:13 am)Abaddon_ire Wrote: (November 18, 2020 at 7:44 pm)Sound Of Reason Wrote: Oh, You guessed it right! Actually, I'm born Muslim. I didn't convert.
I didn't have the conviction at first, and I was sometimes praying and sometimes not. I didn't understand anything when I was listening to other people, so I won't do the same mistake and the only thing that I will say is if you want to know about Islam read Quran (book if Muslims).
I was just trying to define the word god before, I wasn't trying to preach.
I have read it. It is more absurd and morally repugnant than the bible.
Do you want to give me ONE example?
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RE: How far reaching are God's powers?
November 19, 2020 at 10:20 pm
(November 19, 2020 at 10:53 am)Gwaithmir Wrote: (November 18, 2020 at 5:37 pm)Sound Of Reason Wrote: There is a self-contradiction here! Why are you saying that religion is a product of humans, and at the same time, you're blaming God for human actions?
You're using it as an argument only when it serves what you want to believe, and that is exactly the definition of bias. But it's ok, you probably didn't intend to.
Show us where I have blamed God for human actions in the above quotes.
"Blame" wasn't the right word, but that wasn't the real mistake that I've made. That was a trash comment I wrote.
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RE: How far reaching are God's powers?
November 20, 2020 at 7:00 am
(This post was last modified: November 20, 2020 at 7:18 am by GUBU.)
(November 15, 2020 at 9:47 am)MilesAbbott81 Wrote: (November 14, 2020 at 8:32 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Anything, absolutely anything. Can you be held morally responsible for things that you are ignorant of?
Can you be held morally responsible for things you are incapable of.
Can you be held morally responsible for what you have no choice in doing?
If so......how? Lay out a description of moral desert if you believe that it can be maintained in any of these circumstances.
I'd say that depends on the circumstance. Sometimes ignorance itself is a punishment or necessary affliction.
You're just asking me the same question in a different way, so let's just rephrase your question: "Can you be held morally responsible for sin if you can't control it?"
This really is the last time I'm going to answer this, and I do so not because I think you'll understand but because there may be some shortcoming on my part in explaining this that might benefit others.
Let's take Hitler as an example, and let's not include God in the equation for the sake of making the point. Does Hitler have a choice in being Hitler? After all, his life experiences were still the same. Did he have a choice in being raised by a maniacal father, or being blinded in the first World War? How about his miraculous survival in one particular battle that filled his head with delusions of grandeur? Had these things not happened to him, he almost certainly wouldn't have become a maniac himself.
Do you still hold him accountable, though he had no choice in whom he became? Of course you do, because the man was evil. He committed evil acts and posed an existential threat to humanity. He deserved every bit of his suffering in the end.
It's really no different for the sinner. We may not have a choice in becoming sinners, but we are still evil and guilty of evil acts, and as such we must be disciplined and dealt with, otherwise justice is never exacted and we turn into monsters like the people in Antifa, who are all existential threats to humanity (at least to some degree). Like Hitler, Antifa has been allowed to fester and metastasize not only to become a sword in the Lord's hand, but to illustrate what happens when there is no punishment for sin.
I would also add that our natures aren't permanent. They are a part of us temporarily, in order for the work to be done, and as we are disciplined, the Lord gives us the ability to choose good because we become aligned with His will, and not our own. I suppose it's still, in a way, the illusion of choice, but it's nothing you will be upset about when it finally happens. It's actually a superior form of our idea of freedom because it's based in His righteousness and not our sinful natures. Nevertheless, the flesh despises the idea of it, because it wants to be God and hates not being in control.
I think this satisfies the rest of your questions, which are really just different attempts at asking the same thing. Every negative you describe (blindness, pride, etc.) is either punishment for sin or necessary to the fulfillment of God's plan, and is therefore justified, because God's intentions are good and yours evil.
End of discussion, like it or not.
If we have no freedom to choose good, if we are forced to do evile, then how can we be described as evil?
It is that which makes us do evil which is evil.
By your own logic your god is the only evil.
(November 18, 2020 at 6:22 pm)Sound Of Reason Wrote: (November 16, 2020 at 2:11 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: It was a ripcord. It didn't have anything to do with the convo, just some video to post and bolt with.
That's your opinion! The issue is perception. You lack perception. Your perception is bound to materials, that's probably why you can't understand, and that's why I put that video. Unless if my English is bad.
You dropped your "I'm not arguing for god's existence, I'm just describing what he would be" line fairly quickly. Way to go, liar
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RE: How far reaching are God's powers?
November 20, 2020 at 8:13 am
(November 19, 2020 at 8:18 pm)Sound Of Reason Wrote: (November 19, 2020 at 7:13 am)Abaddon_ire Wrote: I have read it. It is more absurd and morally repugnant than the bible.
Do you want to give me ONE example?
Nope. There are plenty of examples that demonstrate your magic book to be full of it. One example will not excuse all the other examples. I have no idea why you think it would.
It's a risible tome no matter how you slice it.
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RE: How far reaching are God's powers?
November 20, 2020 at 1:40 pm
Over 300 posts and still no answer.
Hmmm....sort of makes me think there is no answer.
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RE: How far reaching are God's powers?
November 21, 2020 at 8:54 am
(November 20, 2020 at 1:40 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Over 300 posts and still no answer.
Hmmm....sort of makes me think there is no answer.
There are plenty of CLAIMS for God's powers, but without conclusive evidence for God's existence, those claims are moot.
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