(March 10, 2021 at 10:31 am)arewethereyet Wrote:

(March 10, 2021 at 10:26 am)onlinebiker Wrote: Going out on a limb there bub.....

Evidence is admitted according to rules of evidence...

As a juror you need to simply accept evidence as given. They don' t need amatuer detectives on the jury second guessing evidence.

But they are people who are going to be influenced by which side puts on the better show.  Don't fool yourself into thinking it's as cut and dried as you seem to think it is.

If it doesn't fit...hmmm...did OJ ever find the "real" killer?

Where did you get that idea?

Trial by jury is a fucking mess. Always has been.

But it' s better than mob rule or trial by media....

Honestly, at this point, I believe trial by media could do a better job than our justice system.

You ever wonder, watching those Black Mirror episodes how society got where it did?

It's apparent; society got fucking tired of the broken system. And the only way to know if a new system will work is to get rid of the old.

Keep it up, conservatives, you're creating your own future doom.

It's no coincidence that the whole thing exploded when we were stuck at home watching tv while the nutbars insisted that without carte blanch to murder..we couldn't even have police.

We'd been operating on that as a functional but meaningfully silent assumption for some time. Maybe they should have kept their mouths shut about it, like so much else in the culture war they stoked to lose?

(March 10, 2021 at 11:17 am)Eleven Wrote: Honestly, at this point, I believe trial by media could do a better job than our justice system.

You ever wonder, watching those Black Mirror episodes how society got where it did?

It's apparent; society got fucking tired of the broken system. And the only way to know if a new system will work is to get rid of the old.

Keep it up, conservatives, you're creating your own future doom.

I don't, nor ever will value "trial by media". There is a huge difference between stating the obvious, and the video in this case was obvious, and at the same time valuing the concept of "innocent till proven guilty in a court of law." No matter what I personally think of that officer, I value the concept of the right to a lawyer, and I fully expect his lawyer to do their job. It is still ultimately up to a jury regardless of my personal feelings. I'd also expect any juror who ends up on that jury to go in neutral and only go by the evidence. 

I want a fair trial for him so in case he is convicted it will be virtually impossible to overturn the verdict on appeal. 

But realistically long term we do need to change our system of training "fear first, assume the worst and shoot first, and dominate the situation."

(March 10, 2021 at 9:03 am)onlinebiker Wrote:

(March 10, 2021 at 6:42 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: You didn't ask what I know, you asked what I think. I think he'll get a fair trial, but I could be wrong.

Boru

How can you think he will get a fair trial when so many people - like yourself - are convinced he is guilty without considering ALL of the State' s evidence...Just one video is all they need.

Or are you an excepption.to the norm - and everyone else buys into " innocent til proven guilty"?

I’m a big fan of ‘innocent until proven guilty’. At the moment, Chauvin is innocent of the charges against him, because he’s not been proved guilty. But - again - you asked me to venture an opinion. I can’t consider all of the State’s evidence because I don’t have access to it.

My belief that he should be convicted is an emotional one, not a logical or legal one.

Boru

Funny, I can think guilty with no emotion involved whatsoever.

Chauvin will walk, it'll be a travesty, he'll go on to join another police department quietly and probably murder another unarmed black man. Racists will continue to defend him, it's just what they do. And our Justice system will let them think they're right, because our justice system is filled with systemic racism.

(March 10, 2021 at 12:19 pm)Divinity Wrote: Chauvin will walk, it'll be a travesty, he'll go on to join another police department quietly and probably murder another unarmed black man.  Racists will continue to defend him, it's just what they do.  And our Justice system will let them think they're right, because our justice system is filled with systemic racism.

If he does it walk it will simply continue to perpetuate undue immunity and judging that video, just like Rodney King, it will be a travesty like you said.

(March 10, 2021 at 8:33 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(March 9, 2021 at 7:23 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: I don't think he'll be found guilty of murder. He was using an approved hold and Floyd had enough drugs in his system to OD, along with his serious medical conditions. Chauvin should have realized that Floyd was in medical distress and he fucked up there, but I don't think that rises to the level of a murder conviction.

I've seen this excuse over and over since Rodney King. Not buying it. The defense lawyer will bring this up, but attacking the victim won't work in this case with that video. And yes, it was murder, full stop.

I was as outraged as anyone else when I saw the video of the knee on the neck. The other factors are very relevant though. Floyd had enough drugs in his system to OD. Did that have anything at all to do with his death or was it just the knee? Did he swallow a bunch of drugs to try to hide them from the police? Floyd predicted his own death long before he went to the ground, and said putting him in the back of the police car would be enough to cause him to die. He said over and over, long before he went to the ground, that he couldn't breathe. Did Chauvin see this as the boy who cried wolf, and therefore he decided not to believe Floyd's claims about not being able to breathe when he had him on the ground? How hard was Chauvin pressing his knee onto the neck. I don't know just by watching the video? Do you know? Floyd dove out of the back of the police car once they had him in there. That could technically be called an escape attempt, couldn't it? He needed to be restrained in some way at that point, and he's a huge dude. Was he still resisting on the ground? I don't know. These things are all very relevant, and this wasn't exactly a Rodney King situation. They didn't need to beat Rodney King like that. They did it out of rage. The police officers spoke very nicely to George Floyd. I didn't hear any rage or murderous mentality. Yes, Chauvin fucked up, but is that enough to call him a murderer? I don't think there's enough there to say that, but we'll have to see what other evidence is presented at the trial.