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(November 5, 2011 at 11:50 pm)Faith No More Wrote: I guess I can't really speculate because I'm not even certain we actually have free will in this life. The evidence points to the fact that we are slaves of our biological structure so how that would play out in a situation where we don't have bodies is anybody's guess.
I feel like I have free will, so I must, but my scientific mind tells me otherwise. Just our awareness alone has many unanswered issues. The "Why am I me' thread does not seem to be really going anywhere. Consciousness does not seem to be a well explored concept scientifically. I do believe that our 'free will' is the result of biochemical reactions.
As devil's advocate for the theists, I would say that we have a free will from god contained within our soul, but external to the body and if one follows all the god rules and truly fights temptation 24/7, then one gets to go to heaven where the corporal body is no more and the earthly temptations are no more, so one can then have their free will and their memories and live for all eternity doing nothing but praising god.
/end of advocacy
"Live for all eternity doing nothing but praising god" is certainly nothing I would strive for even if there were a god.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
November 6, 2011 at 3:26 am (This post was last modified: November 6, 2011 at 3:27 am by Faith No More.)
Well, we know that what we as humans believe makes us who we are is a fragile thing dependent on brain structure and health. Many examples exist, like Phineas Gage, of people taking on different traits after brain injury. Also, free will means the ability to act on or deny our desires and impulses which is one of many pieces of our personality dictated by the frontal lobe. Injuries to the frontal lobe can reduce and almost eliminate the ability to decide which thoughts to act upon.
I have been trying to think of this issue from a theist point of view, and I have to say that I can't see how there is free will in heaven. After all, it has been repeatedly stated that the human ability to commit evil is the price of god allowing free will. It is also said that in heaven we have the inability to commit evil acts. So either one must concede there is no free will in heaven or that evil is not a byproduct of free will.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
(November 6, 2011 at 3:26 am)Faith No More Wrote: I have been trying to think of this issue from a theist point of view, and I have to say that I can't see how there is free will in heaven. After all, it has been repeatedly stated that the human ability to commit evil is the price of god allowing free will. It is also said that in heaven we have the inability to commit evil acts. So either one must concede there is no free will in heaven or that evil is not a byproduct of free will.
But the angels must have had free will to deny god. I think god learned it's lesson and to qualify for heaven now, they must be those that will not exercise their free will.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
(November 4, 2011 at 1:47 pm)Greatest I am Wrote: I did not read all the entries but-----
Dogma says that there is free will in heaven as well as here.
Our first example of free will here was in Eden.
We all know what happened to A & E the very first time they did their will and not God’s will.
God threw a sissy fit all over A & E, the whole world and all of us with original sin.
This I think shows clearly that the free will God offers is -----Do things my way or burn forever. That is the dictates of a tyrant who does not give free will at all but one who demand that his will always be done by all of us. Slavery.
Regards
DL
That is it in a nut shell with most atheists. They do not want God to have authority over them in any way. Sorry folks but you have authority over you all you life. You pay taxes if you want to or not, or go to jail. You do it God's way or you go to hell. What's the big deal? God is going to give you everything for eternity. He is our Father, and what father does not delight in the love shown to him by his children. My heart melts when my grand kids crawl all over me and tell me they love me. God looks at his kids the same way. He does not want any to perish, but he will do what he has to do if we force his hand. God is not willing that any should perish, but that all can come to the knowledge of the truth. If you hate and disrespect him, he will simply write you out of his will. It does not matter how much trash talking is passed between believers and non believers, God will have the final say in the matter. God has many children to choose from in order to rebuild his kingdom. He is a great environmentalist, he will burn his trash.
Free will. Sorry but it is not a license to break the law. Atheist are exercising their free will right now. So are Christians. God has given us all that right. What is stopping you from repenting and coming home to your Father? Ever heard the parable of the prodigal son. You know my son was lost but now is found. Slay the fatted calf for him and let’s celebrate his return. I exercised my free will when I repented and turned away from my putrid life style, and then came back home to my Father. I exercised my free will before then and lived in a sin cesspool. You my friend have the free will to do what ever you choose the rest of your natural life. Your free will choices will determine you eternal future no matter what you may think about God. You can mock him and hate any thought of him as you please, but one day you will stand before him and give him an account of your past life. Unintelligent matter did not create you, God did. He is the final authority no matter if you like it or not. I use to thing that hell was unfair because I knew that I was not living right. I no longer have that problem. God would have been absolutely just if he had allowed me to perish outside of his saving grace. I am absolutely delighted he gave me a second chance. Just saying.
When you get to heaven thank god for me for making me not batshit crazy, please. I'd thank him personally, but I don't talk to imaginary friends.
I am a fag-loving, fornicating, blaspheming, godless mother of little secular children, who holds the hands of little christian girls while they're having abortions (for a living)... and a stripper!
If your god, your version of heaven exists, then I'll take hell. I can laugh about all this because I am reasonable enough to see it's bullshit. Fuck, I love my life.
Well, we know that what we as humans believe makes us who we are is a fragile thing dependent on brain structure and health. Many examples exist, like Phineas Gage, of people taking on different traits after brain injury. Also, free will means the ability to act on or deny our desires and impulses which is one of many pieces of our personality dictated by the frontal lobe. Injuries to the frontal lobe can reduce and almost eliminate the ability to decide which thoughts to act upon.
I have been trying to think of this issue from a theist point of view, and I have to say that I can't see how there is free will in heaven. After all, it has been repeatedly stated that the human ability to commit evil is the price of god allowing free will. It is also said that in heaven we have the inability to commit evil acts. So either one must concede there is no free will in heaven or that evil is not a byproduct of free will.
Or one could conclude that one of the premises are wrong. I don't advocate that there is no evil in heaven. I believe we still retain our free will in heaven, which means we would still have the choice to deny God and leave or get kicked out of Heaven. It's clearly Christian doctrine that there was a rebellion in Heaven, thus I see no other logical alternative than from Heaven one can rebel still.
Evil would still be a byproduct or consequence from use of your free will that is counter to God's will. Free will doesn't automatically mean sin, which seems to be your disconnect. I believe we also had free will in Eden, they acted negatively on it and got booted. I would assume the same would go for us in Heaven.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
No promises as to the frequency, but I never really left, just took a break.
As to sanity.. it's overrated...I just like to keep the screen from hurting my eyes and my palm-print off of my forehead.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
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