The big question, would Floyd have died in the absence of forcible restraint and the delay of medical attention?

I've not heard of any evidence suggesting impending death prior to the confrontation. He was certainly able to walk into a store, make a purchase and make it back to his car. Then, later fought to be detained and placed in the car.

Edit: I just saw that the city settled the wrongful death case.

(March 11, 2021 at 10:30 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: The point of that one is very much to kill the other guy, not yourself. They just didn't have good ejection seats.

Technically, the kamikaze were essentially a desperate measure to keep the Japanese Imperial Council from admitting defeat, at least for a bit less than a year.

Also, on George Floyd, I listened to a news report that said they were having trouble finding people who didn’t know about the case. The best they seem to be able to do is find people who know about the case but are apparently willing to put all they know aside and listen to what the people at the trial say.

(March 12, 2021 at 7:09 pm)arewethereyet Wrote:

(March 12, 2021 at 6:57 pm)Irreligious Atheist Wrote: Nope. That was not the insinuation at all. The relevance of the drugs are that one of the autopsy reports said that if Floyd was found dead without any surrounding circumstances, the default analysis would be that he died of a drug overdose.

That leads to the question of how much of an impact an overdosing amount of drugs had on his death. There was more than one autopsy and the conclusions differ. One of the autopsy reports says the cause of death was "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression." The other autopsy ruled the cause of death as "asphyxiation from sustained pressure."

We have conflicting results there. Did Floyd die of heart failure, or was it simply the knee on the neck? Floyd also had heart disease, hypertension and sickle cell trait. He was also just getting over Corona, and was likely in a state of excited delirium.[/url]

These are all extremely important details. Others don't want these things mentioned though, because they have the mentality of "I saw the tape. I know what I saw. Seeing is believing." I care about all the evidence though. The eyes deceive and I need to use more than simply my sight to try to figure out exactly what went on here. Remember what the default position used to be on atheist boards like this? "I'd rather see a hundred guilty men go free than one innocent man get locked up." That doesn't quite seem to be the default anymore.

Chauvin definitely f'd up, and maybe you could call it murder or manslaughter or something along those lines. Maybe. I see too many questions up in the air right now though, and if I were on the jury, I don't think I could vote to convict him with what we currently know, but I'm waiting to see what other evidence comes in during the trial.

Looking at the different fonts and different styles of writing, it's pretty obvious that your post contains some quotes.  You should cite where you are getting your quotes from.  It's obvious with a quick search that you decided to copy/paste bits and pieces from here and there.

George Floyd: What Is a Fatal Dose of Fentanyl?, by Paul ...

https://www.unz.com/proberts/what-is-a-fatal-dose-of-fentanyl/?showcomments[url=https://www.bing.com/search?q=That+leads+to+the+question+of+how+much+of+an+impact+an+overdosing+amount+of+drugs+had+on+his+death.+There+was+more+than+one+autopsy+and+the+conclusions+differ.+One+of+the+autopsy+reports+says+the+cause+of+death+was+%22cardiopulmonary+arrest+complicating+law+enforcement+subdual%2C+restraint%2C+and+neck+compression.%22+The+other+autopsy+ruled+the+cause+of+death+as+%22asphyxiation+from+sustained+pressure.%22&aqs=edge..69i57&FORM=ANCMS9&PC=HCTS#]
Let’s not forget the official autopsy cause of death of George Floyd: cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint and neck compression. ... 19 ng/mL of methamphetamine, and three other drugs. If he had survived that shit, he would above average on everything. It is quite likely that he was way below average.

Sorry about that. Here's the link I was quoting from https://www.npr.org/sections/live-update...oronavirus

For what it’s worth, Floyd’s initial test for COVID was 7 1/2 weeks before he died. And even if his preexisting conditions played a role in his death, does this absolve Chauvin?

(March 12, 2021 at 8:27 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: For what it’s worth, Floyd’s initial test for COVID was 7 1/2 weeks before he died. And even if his preexisting conditions played a role in his death, does this absolve Chauvin?

Chauvin f'd up, but was it murder? The knee on the neck is an approved hold. Do criminals sometimes lie about not being able to breathe? Yes. Did Chauvin not believe him? I don't know, but he certainly could have handled things better I think. Floyd seemed to be talking ok on the ground, so is that why Chauvin didn't believe he couldn't breathe? I doubt Chauvin thought the man was dying, because he probably wouldn't want to be caught up in all of this mess like he is now. Was Chauvin really ticked off that Floyd jumped out of the back of the police car, and so he acted out of anger and spite and just let Floyd die for that reason? Could be, but we don't know that. If it was someone else that was being arrested without all those drugs in them, would they have been just fine with the same amount of pressure put on their necks? This matters to me. Should Chauvin have done a better job noticing that Floyd passed out and have taken the knee off the neck at that point? Yes, but to me, I don't know if that's enough to rise to the level of murder. He certainly should not be serving up to 40 years imo.

Chauvin can be found guilty for having contributed to the mans death. It doesn't matter if someone else would have been fine. Nothing about any drugs in the mans system matter at all.

If chauvin should have noticed and should have taken his knee off, then, yes, that would be murder. You may have reservations about sentencing, but this is the same system that cops have been putting people into. Reform is a wonderful goal - but it's not a defense against murder.

Something I found on MPD use of force: https://sites.law.duke.edu/csj-blog/2020...nneapolis/

Chauvin is the first part of Chauvinistic; that's all I need to find him guilty.

Just saying.

911 dispatcher testifies officers pinned down George Floyd for so long she thought her video feed had frozen

nbcnews.com

For full coverage of the trial

(March 29, 2021 at 9:22 pm)Eleven Wrote: 911 dispatcher testifies officers pinned down George Floyd for so long she thought her video feed had frozen

nbcnews.com

For full coverage of the trial

I can remember IA saying that a choke hold can be an effective and safe way of incapacitating your opponent and citing some MMA fighters. I wonder if any of those MMA fighters would think keeping at it for NINE AND A HALF FUCKING MINUTES is a good idea.

And, yes, it turns out the infamous 8:46 is actually understating the amount of time he spent in the choke hold. And it looks like almost all that time is people underestimating the time he spent out cold.

And now I'm searching for a suitable song that's exactly 9:29 long (preferably with a big shift around 5:38) because it looks like my old use of Modest Mouse' "The Stars Are Projectors" is out of date. And all I'm finding are a live version of Gary Clark's "When the Train Comes In," Kurt Vile's "Walkin on a Pretty Day," and Grand Funk Railroad's "Inside Looking Out," and none of them really fit.

And looking through my external hard drive, I'm also finding Can's "Pinch" and Deadmau5's "The 16th Hour," as well as some classical pieces, but their timings are too variable to use as a time demonstration.