(August 21, 2021 at 12:05 am)Fireball Wrote: Well, shit howdy, I haven't heard the "No True Scotsman" Fallacy in awhile. 

But it's true. Many people call themselves Christians, but a lot of them are just confused and shouldn't be calling themselves Christians.

Why not? What do you think is necessary to be a christian?

(August 21, 2021 at 12:26 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Why not?  What do you think is necessary to be a christian?

What it takes to be a Christian? A singular focus on Christ.......to always remember Death is waiting for you.......to welcome Heaven's Light. I know this might sound cryptic, but there's really no way to describe how to be a Christian, in a matter-of-fact way.

(August 20, 2021 at 11:44 pm)Ahriman Wrote: Christians who "do despicable things" aren't even Christians.

If they believe they are Christians, who are you to say otherwise?

And what of non-believers and different-believers who behave in a "Christ-like manner"?  You don't get to claim them as honorary Christians on the basis of their behaviour.

The bottom line is that correlation between religious belief and behaviour is extremely inconsistent, so it's unlikely that belief is the primary cause of laudable behaviour.  More likely it's basic human empathy at the core, with religion playing a peripheral role primarily as an inspiration.

(August 21, 2021 at 12:46 am)Astreja Wrote:

(August 20, 2021 at 11:44 pm)Ahriman Wrote: Christians who "do despicable things" aren't even Christians.

If they believe they are Christians, who are you to say otherwise?

And what of non-believers and different-believers who behave in a "Christ-like manner"?  You don't get to claim them as honorary Christians on the basis of their behaviour.

The bottom line is that correlation between religious belief and behaviour is extremely inconsistent, so it's unlikely that belief is the primary cause of laudable behaviour.  More likely it's basic human empathy at the core, with religion playing a peripheral role primarily as an inspiration.

Behaving in a Christ-like manner, is what makes a person a Christian.

(August 21, 2021 at 12:57 am)Ahriman Wrote:

(August 21, 2021 at 12:46 am)Astreja Wrote: If they believe they are Christians, who are you to say otherwise?

And what of non-believers and different-believers who behave in a "Christ-like manner"?  You don't get to claim them as honorary Christians on the basis of their behaviour.

The bottom line is that correlation between religious belief and behaviour is extremely inconsistent, so it's unlikely that belief is the primary cause of laudable behaviour.  More likely it's basic human empathy at the core, with religion playing a peripheral role primarily as an inspiration.

Behaving in a Christ-like manner, is what makes a person a Christian.

Things like wandering the desert with 12 dudes, resurrecting the dead, and getting crucified?

That's the thing, most Christians believe that they are behaving like Jesus: Pope who is protecting pedophiles and amassing wealth, Christians who see Trump as Jesus, those who go to war against the unbelievers, etc.

(August 21, 2021 at 1:15 am)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(August 21, 2021 at 12:57 am)Ahriman Wrote: Behaving in a Christ-like manner, is what makes a person a Christian.

Things like wandering the desert with 12 dudes, resurrecting the dead, and getting crucified?

Speaking of 12 dudes, that reminds me of the Zodiac. In terms of the Zodiac, Jesus was a Pisces, the most empathetic sign. He was the most empathetic person who ever lived. The claims about Jesus, found in the Bible, about what He said and did, that have to do with His showing empathy towards others, are what resonate with me the most. Now honestly, I'm not sure what resurrecting someone from the dead, has to do with empathy, so I just skip that. But allowing oneself to be "crucified" (literally or figuratively), for the good of others, is totally something an empathetic person would do. If Jesus really believed, that by allowing Himself to be crucified, He would be dying for the sins of mankind, then Him being crucified, was an act of supreme benevolence. Supreme because, even if Jesus did not actually die for the sins of mankind, as He thought He did, He still believed He was doing so, which should be enough to earn him anyone's respect.

(August 21, 2021 at 2:10 am)Ahriman Wrote: But allowing oneself to be "crucified" (literally or figuratively), for the good of others, is totally something an empathetic person would do.

It wasn't for the good of the others. Like it wasn't good for the Jews who were for many centuries (up until 1960s) considered Christ-killers and were constantly persecuted by Christians.

For instance, recently I've read a book "Philip Roth The Biography" and there is a part in there about his ancestors in Poland with sentences like this: "Throughout the Middle Ages, Polish landowners had employed Jewish agents to collect rents and taxes from the peasantry, who meanwhile were reminded every Sunday, in church, that the Jews had killed Christ. “Pole, Yid, and hound—each to the same faith bound,” read the legend commonly nailed to trees where a Pole, Jew, and dog had been hanged. Almost every Jew in Tarnopol was killed or expelled in the massacre, and the city itself was burned to the ground."

And that's not even a drop in the bucket. In another instance, in 1298, a priest spread the host-nailing story in Nuremberg, and 628 Jews were killed right away, and then 20 thousand more Jews were murdered see more about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rintfleisch_massacres

(August 20, 2021 at 11:19 pm)Mashmont Wrote:

(December 12, 2014 at 10:00 pm)Foxaire Wrote: Christian radio host sentenced to 40 years for child sex abuse


http://www.christiantoday.com/article/ch.../44329.htm

No Christian denomination teaches sex abuse is OK.  So your beef is with non-Christian behavior.

Nonsense. Plenty of Christian denominations advocate child marriage, male domination of women, the 'right' of husbands to sex, and so on.

Boru