(June 4, 2022 at 5:56 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Each of those kids can shoot and has an idea of what's theirs in that collection.  I cant remember not knowing how to shoot and I can't remember not having "my guns".  Honestly, I'd be less concerned with the kids than the adults.  Gun safety is a matter of practical necessity if you don't want to be shot in your sleep, on accident, by children.  It's only a thing to flaunt when you need to make a political point.  They're just things to the kids.

Not always. If mom or dad are constantly going, "These things are awesome", and treating the objects like stalkers treat celebrities, some kids are going to become curious and want to play with them not realizing they are in reality, potentially deadly. It isn't always enough to simply tell a kid "don't touch these outside my presence." I was a kid myself too, and even outside the issue of firearms, sometimes when my parents told me not to do something, I did it anyway. 

No, guns shouldn't be treated as "just things". Far too often you hear firearm cultists argue, "A firearm cannot magically jump off the table and fire itself". That is true, but is a convenient dodge for them to avoid facing the fact you should treat the firearm as if it could fire itself. People who stupidly think "I've handled firearms countless times, and nothing bad has ever happened to me." That is lazy thinking and dangerous thinking. It only takes one time to make a mistake, and guns do not have a rewind button. Once you pull the trigger on a loaded gun, you cannot take it back. People who stupidly think nothing bad will ever happen to them, are as dangerous to themselves and others like a drunk driver thinks they will never get into a crash or injure or kill anyone, by accident. Same thing there. It only takes one time. 

I get what you are saying Nudger but it isn't as simple as you'd like to think. Some kids if you say, "they are just things" will treat them as "just things" and end up also thinking nothing bad could happen. I would however agree that ,in any case , the parents are ultimately responsible if things go south.

Its exactly that simple to kids. It could arguably be a better world, at least here in the us, if it remained that simple when they grew up. It doesn't - guns become a fetish. There's no respect in fetishism. Only perversion.

(June 4, 2022 at 6:47 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(June 4, 2022 at 5:56 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Each of those kids can shoot and has an idea of what's theirs in that collection.  I cant remember not knowing how to shoot and I can't remember not having "my guns".  Honestly, I'd be less concerned with the kids than the adults.  Gun safety is a matter of practical necessity if you don't want to be shot in your sleep, on accident, by children.  It's only a thing to flaunt when you need to make a political point.  They're just things to the kids.

Not always. If mom or dad are constantly going, "These things are awesome", and treating the objects like stalkers treat celebrities, some kids are going to become curious and want to play with them not realizing they are in reality, potentially deadly. It isn't always enough to simply tell a kid "don't touch these outside my presence." I was a kid myself too, and even outside the issue of firearms, sometimes when my parents told me not to do something, I did it anyway. 

No, guns shouldn't be treated as "just things". Far too often you hear firearm cultists argue, "A firearm cannot magically jump off the table and fire itself". That is true, but is a convenient dodge for them to avoid facing the fact you should treat the firearm as if it could fire itself. People who stupidly think "I've handled firearms countless times, and nothing bad has ever happened to me." That is lazy thinking and dangerous thinking. It only takes one time to make a mistake, and guns do not have a rewind button. Once you pull the trigger on a loaded gun, you cannot take it back. People who stupidly think nothing bad will ever happen to them, are as dangerous to themselves and others like a drunk driver thinks they will never get into a crash or injure or kill anyone, by accident. Same thing there. It only takes one time. 

I get what you are saying Nudger but it isn't as simple as you'd like to think. Some kids if you say, "they are just things" will treat them as "just things" and end up also thinking nothing bad could happen. I would however agree that ,in any case , the parents are ultimately responsible if things go south.

I believe in removing the mysticism that some things have. My daughter is 3, will be 4 in October. She sees me drink bourbon from time to time. Alcohol isn’t this “terrible thing you should avoid” (didn’t work when I was a teen), but a facet of our existence. How can she see what moderation and proper use is without it being demonstrated?

I see both your points. To that end she will see firearms as what they are, because she will see me properly handling them. That said, I’m the only one in the house with access to either safe. 

Responsible people raise responsible children.  But access is still denied until the time is right.

(June 4, 2022 at 5:45 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(June 4, 2022 at 2:09 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: It's tempting to look at that picture and think that there's some derangement in that family, but collectors are a thing. I know some guys on guitar forums who own a couple of hundred guitars and fifty amplifiers, too.

Not true. If you are not missing a can in your six pack, you'd accept that stockpiling them like that and displaying them like that isn't a "hobby" but a fetish. Sane firearm owners that I know and trust with a firearm do not brag about the weapons they have and they don't put them on display like a centerfold in a Playboy. It is a sickness when you get to that level.

Collectors brag about and take pics of their collections all the time. So yeah, it's true in some cases. You're makin assumptions.

(June 5, 2022 at 2:03 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:

(June 4, 2022 at 5:45 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Not true. If you are not missing a can in your six pack, you'd accept that stockpiling them like that and displaying them like that isn't a "hobby" but a fetish. Sane firearm owners that I know and trust with a firearm do not brag about the weapons they have and they don't put them on display like a centerfold in a Playboy. It is a sickness when you get to that level.

Collectors brag about and take pics of their collections all the time. So yeah, it's true in some cases. You're makin assumptions.

I have a mate who collects edged weapons - any culture, any era. He has several hundred of the things.

 He's a good sort, but if the topic gets round to his hobby, he will go on no end about the subtle differences between Venetian and Florentine parrying daggers that appeared between 1530 and 1542, often using pics saved on his phone to illustrate his points. He will continue until forcibly  stopped.

To the best of my current knowledge, he's never stabbed anyone.

Boru

14 shot 3 dead, Philadelphia 

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/loc...y/3261464/

And a Wisconsin Judge blown away in his own home.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/20...emer-uhde/

They're not related some might say. Yes they are. Someone whom should not have had a firearm, got their hands on a firearm. 

An average of 110 Americans will be injured or die as a result of firearm use in the next 24 hours.

(June 5, 2022 at 7:24 am)Brian37 Wrote: 14 shot 3 dead, Philadelphia 

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/loc...y/3261464/

And a Wisconsin Judge blown away in his own home.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/20...emer-uhde/

They're not related some might say. Yes they are. Someone whom should not have had a firearm, got their hands on a firearm. 

An average of 110 Americans will be injured or die as a result of firearm use in the next 24 hours.

What is the ideal number every 24 hours?

(June 5, 2022 at 9:46 am)Spooky Wrote:

(June 5, 2022 at 7:24 am)Brian37 Wrote: 14 shot 3 dead, Philadelphia 

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/loc...y/3261464/

And a Wisconsin Judge blown away in his own home.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/20...emer-uhde/

They're not related some might say. Yes they are. Someone whom should not have had a firearm, got their hands on a firearm. 

An average of 110 Americans will be injured or die as a result of firearm use in the next 24 hours.

What is the ideal number every 24 hours? 

It is subject to change by the forces of the "hold my beer" conspiracy nuts on the fetish far right. How dare we actually want to reduce firearm violence. I personally love fearing going out of my house and possibly having my brain turned into mutton.

All because of the "free to be dumb" marketers in the industry.

But we could ask the Tootsie Roll turtle. Oh, the owl retired back in the 70s, the turtle man took over. 

"Mr Turtle, how many dead bodies does it take to get you to sanity?" Mitch, " Lets see....... One..... a twooo, a threeee. Oh who am I kidding? I really don't care, I don't want to upset my gravy train donators in the industry and their lobby. But I do have a free toe tag if you'd like one."

(June 5, 2022 at 4:42 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(June 5, 2022 at 2:03 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: Collectors brag about and take pics of their collections all the time. So yeah, it's true in some cases. You're makin assumptions.

I have a mate who collects edged weapons - any culture, any era. He has several hundred of the things.

 He's a good sort, but if the topic gets round to his hobby, he will go on no end about the subtle differences between Venetian and Florentine parrying daggers that appeared between 1530 and 1542, often using pics saved on his phone to illustrate his points. He will continue until forcibly  stopped.

To the best of my current knowledge, he's never stabbed anyone.

Boru

Right. I only own four guitars and three amps, but don't get me started talking about 'em!

(June 5, 2022 at 11:06 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(June 5, 2022 at 9:46 am)Spooky Wrote: What is the ideal number every 24 hours? 

It is subject to change by the forces of the "hold my beer" conspiracy nuts on the fetish far right. How dare we actually want to reduce firearm violence. I personally love fearing going out of my house and possibly having my brain turned into mutton.

All because of the "free to be dumb" marketers in the industry.

But we could ask the Tootsie Roll turtle. Oh, the owl retired back in the 70s, the turtle man took over. 

"Mr Turtle, how many dead bodies does it take to get you to sanity?" Mitch, " Lets see....... One..... a twooo, a threeee. Oh who am I kidding? I really don't care, I don't want to upset my gravy train donators in the industry and their lobby. But I do have a free toe tag if you'd like one."

In a country of 330’ish million people who have access to more weapons than most other populations, Zero is an illogical number. But I’m all for reducing said number also. 

So, what is your ideal number?