(August 7, 2022 at 7:10 pm)onlinebiker Wrote:

(August 7, 2022 at 5:13 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Well, adults with guns can CLEARLY stop teens with guns - we know because it happens (of course, it tends to happen only after the body count is unconscionably high).

Since you’re clearly done guessing, consider this:

Jimmy goes to the school armed with just a pistol. He kills one person and takes a roomful of kids hostages (in the room where the gun safe is). He demands that the gun safe be opened or he’ll kill one child every five minutes.

I can only see two ways this plays out:

1. Someone at the school, hoping against hope to save the lives of the hostages, opens the safe. Jimmy now has an AR-15 along with extra magazines and a good supply of ammo. Carnage ensues.

2. No one accedes to Jimmy’s demand and he makes good on his threat to start killing children. The cops arrive after Jimmy has killed several kids and shoot and kill Jimmy (who is now out of ammo).

Now, explain to me how an AR-15 locked in a safe was any help to the police.

Boru

You watch too much TV.

Your whole scenario is asinine.

If the kid has a pistol - he doesn' t NEED a rifle to kill kids - he can just start merrilly whacking kids at his leisure because he' s the only one with a gun. What part of that escapes you?

Do you think an AR15 will get a 12 year old deader than a Glock 19????

You are playing Mystery Theater 2022 - making up goofy scenarios that back your ideas.

So what is going to happen if a monster comes in with ANYTHING - pistol- shotgun - rifle - peepee inducing scary black rifle -- and starts shooting kids in classrooms and NOBODY ELSE had a weapon or has access to a weapon???

Gee - that's what USUALLY happens.... And the usual result is a bunch of dead kids --- because YOU WERE UNCOMFORTABLE with the idea of staff( trained even) having access to a weapon.....


Perhaps we need more "Gun Free Zone" signs...

That always works.....

And I can't help but notice that you keep assuming that by the time that a good person is able to access said AR-15, load it, and actually get to the scene of the crime, the monster in question is likely to not only not have finished, but hasn't actually started yet*. Let alone that the person entrusted to actually fire the AR-15 will be able to use it properly. Hesitate at the wrong moment, the monster could probably shoot the good guy with a gun and maybe end up with an AR-15 so he can do even more damage. That strikes me as a much more practical means for a shooter to get to the AR-15 than Boru's hostage situation.

Maybe the real answer is to try and keep monsters from getting guns so easily. But surely that would never work. It's not like we're A) one of the few developed nations with such lax gun laws, and B) the only developed nation that keeps having shooters who constantly commit mass murders. Everybody knows there's zero connection between having a gun and shooting someone with it and not having a gun and not shooting someone with it!

*From what I've been able to find, mass shootings are far more likely to be over in the span of a few minutes.

(August 8, 2022 at 3:26 am)Rev. Rye Wrote:

(August 7, 2022 at 7:10 pm)onlinebiker Wrote: You watch too much TV.

Your whole scenario is asinine.

If the kid has a pistol - he doesn' t NEED a rifle to kill kids - he can just start merrilly whacking kids at his leisure because he' s the only one with a gun. What part of that escapes you?

Do you think an AR15 will get a 12 year old deader than a Glock 19????

You are playing Mystery Theater 2022 - making up goofy scenarios that back your ideas.

So what is going to happen if a monster comes in with ANYTHING - pistol- shotgun - rifle - peepee inducing scary black rifle -- and starts shooting kids in classrooms and NOBODY ELSE had a weapon or has access to a weapon???

Gee - that's what USUALLY happens.... And the usual result is a bunch of dead kids --- because YOU WERE UNCOMFORTABLE with the idea of staff( trained even) having access to a weapon.....


Perhaps we need more "Gun Free Zone" signs...

That always works.....

And I can't help but notice that you keep assuming that by the time that a good person is able to access said AR-15, load it, and actually get to the scene of the crime, the monster in question is likely to not only not have finished, but hasn't actually started yet*.  Let alone that the person entrusted to actually fire the AR-15 will be able to use it properly. Hesitate at the wrong moment, the monster could probably shoot the good guy with a gun and maybe end up with an AR-15 so he can do even more damage. That strikes me as a much more practical means for a shooter to get to the AR-15 than Boru's hostage situation.

Maybe the real answer is to try and keep monsters from getting guns so easily. But surely that would never work. It's not like we're A) one of the few developed nations with such lax gun laws, and B) the only developed nation that keeps having shooters who constantly commit mass murders. Everybody knows there's zero connection between having a gun and shooting someone with it and not having a gun and not shooting someone with it!

*From what I've been able to find, mass shootings are far more likely to be over in the span of a few minutes.

From the linked article, it’s implied (though not explicitly stated) that only law enforcement will be able to access the school safes. Which would make the safes utterly useless. The kid who sneaks a Glock 19 into his school could conceivably kill 30 people in the few minutes it takes the cops to get to the scene.

Boru

(August 8, 2022 at 3:39 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(August 8, 2022 at 3:26 am)Rev. Rye Wrote: And I can't help but notice that you keep assuming that by the time that a good person is able to access said AR-15, load it, and actually get to the scene of the crime, the monster in question is likely to not only not have finished, but hasn't actually started yet*.  Let alone that the person entrusted to actually fire the AR-15 will be able to use it properly. Hesitate at the wrong moment, the monster could probably shoot the good guy with a gun and maybe end up with an AR-15 so he can do even more damage. That strikes me as a much more practical means for a shooter to get to the AR-15 than Boru's hostage situation.

Maybe the real answer is to try and keep monsters from getting guns so easily. But surely that would never work. It's not like we're A) one of the few developed nations with such lax gun laws, and B) the only developed nation that keeps having shooters who constantly commit mass murders. Everybody knows there's zero connection between having a gun and shooting someone with it and not having a gun and not shooting someone with it!

*From what I've been able to find, mass shootings are far more likely to be over in the span of a few minutes.

From the linked article, it’s implied (though not explicitly stated) that only law enforcement will be able to access the school safes. Which would make the safes utterly useless. The kid who sneaks a Glock 19 into his school could conceivably kill 30 people in the few minutes it takes the cops to get to the scene.

Boru

Talk to Elisjsha Dicken.

I think he could tell you that every bit of your assessment it BS.

Pointing to a rare outlier proves nothing .....

(August 8, 2022 at 3:39 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(August 8, 2022 at 3:26 am)Rev. Rye Wrote: And I can't help but notice that you keep assuming that by the time that a good person is able to access said AR-15, load it, and actually get to the scene of the crime, the monster in question is likely to not only not have finished, but hasn't actually started yet*.  Let alone that the person entrusted to actually fire the AR-15 will be able to use it properly. Hesitate at the wrong moment, the monster could probably shoot the good guy with a gun and maybe end up with an AR-15 so he can do even more damage. That strikes me as a much more practical means for a shooter to get to the AR-15 than Boru's hostage situation.

Maybe the real answer is to try and keep monsters from getting guns so easily. But surely that would never work. It's not like we're A) one of the few developed nations with such lax gun laws, and B) the only developed nation that keeps having shooters who constantly commit mass murders. Everybody knows there's zero connection between having a gun and shooting someone with it and not having a gun and not shooting someone with it!

*From what I've been able to find, mass shootings are far more likely to be over in the span of a few minutes.

From the linked article, it’s implied (though not explicitly stated) that only law enforcement will be able to access the school safes. Which would make the safes utterly useless. The kid who sneaks a Glock 19 into his school could conceivably kill 30 people in the few minutes it takes the cops to get to the scene.

Boru

His counter is to appeal to an outlier case as if it shows a general rule......

(August 8, 2022 at 6:59 am)onlinebiker Wrote:

(August 8, 2022 at 3:39 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: From the linked article, it’s implied (though not explicitly stated) that only law enforcement will be able to access the school safes. Which would make the safes utterly useless. The kid who sneaks a Glock 19 into his school could conceivably kill 30 people in the few minutes it takes the cops to get to the scene.

Boru

Talk to Elisjsha Dicken.

I think he could tell you that every bit of your assessment it BS.

Dicken's gun was notorious for not being locked in a safe. If only the cops can access the school safe, a shooter is going to have several minutes free to kill people.

Boru

(August 8, 2022 at 7:54 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(August 8, 2022 at 6:59 am)onlinebiker Wrote: Talk to Elisjsha Dicken.

I think he could tell you that every bit of your assessment it BS.

Dicken's gun was notorious for not being locked in a safe. If only the cops can access the school safe, a shooter is going to have several minutes free to kill people.

Boru

But...But one time a person got lucky and actually managed to kill a shooter, therefore, this will always work and the situation Elisjsha Dicken's face is just like what would happen during a school shooting ......

(August 8, 2022 at 7:54 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(August 8, 2022 at 6:59 am)onlinebiker Wrote: Talk to Elisjsha Dicken.

I think he could tell you that every bit of your assessment it BS.

Dicken's gun was notorious for not being locked in a safe. If only the cops can access the school safe, a shooter is going to have several minutes free to kill people.

Boru

Keep hammering that theoretical nail.......

How about - give more people access???

Or does it only not work your way - and you would prefer it doesn' t work???

(August 8, 2022 at 7:46 am)Helios Wrote: Pointing to a rare outlier proves nothing .....

So we should listen to you - an obnoxious loudmouthed internet stalker who learned life by Googling everything - rather than a man who lived through the horror and triumphed.....


Yeah ....

Not...

And you seem to think we should rely on something that happens very rarely. There’s a reason there aren’t a lot of Elisjsha Dickens in situations like the one in Houston and it ain’t because of no gun zones. You want a hint, look up the bystander effect and add to it that there’s no guarantee that the “good guy with a gun” will be able to do the deed correctly.