(September 14, 2022 at 7:15 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Your analysis doesn’t explain why vast numbers of non-religious people are able to experience fulfilling, satisfying lives while being fully aware of their own mortality.

There is a big difference between simply knowing that one will die one day, and being fully aware of it. Our subconscious is hardwired to function as if death never occurs  - I'll probably have to look up the article where I read that, but for now just take my word for it-. 

Once you dig deeper to find out why these people led fulfilling lives, it's mostly due to luck -most of them probably didn't have some physical or mental disability, and/or were born to a rich family, and/or grew up in a favorable environment. Any advantage in life makes it easy for one to abstract away death and pretend it never happens -well, at least until it does happen. But what about people on the other side of the spectrum ? People who have a serious disadvantage in life, what would give them the inner momentum to move forward, under atheism or naturalism ? 

Take a young woman with a congenital deformity who grew up in a capitalist society -like yours. I am sure she would have dealt with all forms of bullying and discrimination throughout her life, and if these traumatizing events happen very early in her life, they can severely affect her psychological makeup, and leave her vulnerable and directly exposed to the neurosis of thinking about death. If the woman in this example were religious, she can at least take comfort in knowing that an all-powerful being is with her in the face of an unforgiving society, and that He can offer her long lasting rewards for her deeds, however small and insignificant. 

Absent religion, things are much more complicated for the poor woman, she is reduced to an inept element that is trivially easy to replace in a capitalist system, which is characterized by competitiveness and optimal allocation of resources. 

In short, a person with a congenital deformity loses all forms of capitalist competition AND will never be allocated to any useful function at any level of society. So, what kind of consolation does your worldview offer to these people ?

(September 14, 2022 at 7:15 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Have you ever met a woman? I only ask because you don’t seem to know much about them.

Boru

I know that being an experienced simp is something valuable in your culture. Well, not all cultures appreciate simps, you'll be highly revered in the country where I used to live, if you actually never got into a relationship - marriage notwithstanding, of course.

(September 14, 2022 at 8:32 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: Not really much of a dilemma. All you have to do is create something that strikes such a chord with other people that they keep talking about it long after you're gone. You don't necessarily need a supreme being to help you do it.

Are you sure about this ? People still talk about Ted Bundy to this day, almost 30 years after his death. I think you misunderstood the OP and, mistakenly, thought that by transcending death I meant being famous among people. Well, no, not at all. People like Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer are reasonably famous, but I think we can both agree that their deeds don't really transcend space and time.

People talking about you long after your death is definitely not a good metric of how meaningful your life was.

@R00tKiT

Just because a religious belief is comforting does not make it true. When our brains die, we die and cease to exist; you do it each and every day (hopefully), just by going to sleep. You don't have a moment where you say, "Hey, I'm awake" followed by "Hey, this is my last moment of being awake". Ditto for death.

(September 15, 2022 at 8:28 am)Deesse23 Wrote: Disgusting. In any case utterly confused, thats the least i can conclude, giving him all the leeway i can. I begin to see why minds like him think its a good idea to force women to wear "proper" clothing and shit.

Bold mine. I see that you despise "proper clothing" and would like to see all women and girls with full-fledged makeup looks and exposed bodies. Now we all know how depraved your view of women really is. Your comments about the religious being "twisted" are nothing but gaslighting.

(September 15, 2022 at 1:48 pm)Jehanne Wrote: @R00tKiT

Just because a religious belief is comforting does not make it true.  

Yes, I know. But if a particular lie has no negative effect on your life, and can actually alleviate a lot of your worries and anxieties, it's probably a very good idea to endorse the lie.

(September 15, 2022 at 1:53 pm)R00tKiT Wrote:

(September 15, 2022 at 1:48 pm)Jehanne Wrote: @R00tKiT

Just because a religious belief is comforting does not make it true.  

Yes, I know. But if a particular lie has no negative effect on your life, and can actually alleviate a lot of your worries and anxieties, it's probably a very good idea to endorse the lie.

I know it's a lie; as such, trying to pretend that such is not a lie would have a negative impact on my life; it's like trying to pretend that 2+2 = 5. I know that religious belief cannot alter reality, and in that respect, it takes a bad situation (one's own death & annihilation) and makes it even worse.

(September 15, 2022 at 1:28 pm)R00tKiT Wrote: People who have a serious disadvantage in life, what would give them the inner momentum to move forward, under atheism or naturalism ? 

I mean....not all of them do, just to get that out of the way.  The majority of people who don't,  by brute force of demographics, believe in a god.  Existential anxiety and despair are well represented in believing demographics.  

If you were dirt poor, would you keep going for god..or because you hoped to be not-poor at some point in the (hopefully) not too distant future?  About that, would praying to god put money in your pocket? The question is just ridiculous, and as your earlier comments leave people wondering if you've ever met a woman - these can only make us wonder whether you're a shut-in with no life goals, no responsibilities, and no contact with anyone whos ever had any.

(September 15, 2022 at 1:51 pm)R00tKiT Wrote:

(September 15, 2022 at 8:28 am)Deesse23 Wrote: Disgusting. In any case utterly confused, thats the least i can conclude, giving him all the leeway i can. I begin to see why minds like him think its a good idea to force women to wear "proper" clothing and shit.

Bold mine. I see that you despise "proper clothing" and would like to see all women and girls with full-fledged makeup looks and exposed bodies. Now we all know how depraved your view of women really is. Your comments about the religious being "twisted" are nothing but gaslighting.

Why is the attire of women all or none?  There's a huge difference between 'exposed bodies' and having to have every inch covered in an effort to help men keep control of themselves.

WTF is full-fledged makeup?  Is it lip gloss or layers of various products?

Your religion has hampered your ability to know a darn thing about people.

(September 15, 2022 at 1:28 pm)R00tKiT Wrote:

(September 14, 2022 at 7:15 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Your analysis doesn’t explain why vast numbers of non-religious people are able to experience fulfilling, satisfying lives while being fully aware of their own mortality.

There is a big difference between simply knowing that one will die one day, and being fully aware of it. Our subconscious is hardwired to function as if death never occurs  - I'll probably have to look up the article where I read that, but for now just take my word for it-. 

Once you dig deeper to find out why these people led fulfilling lives, it's mostly due to luck -most of them probably didn't have some physical or mental disability, and/or were born to a rich family, and/or grew up in a favorable environment. Any advantage in life makes it easy for one to abstract away death and pretend it never happens -well, at least until it does happen. But what about people on the other side of the spectrum ? People who have a serious disadvantage in life, what would give them the inner momentum to move forward, under atheism or naturalism ? 

Take a young woman with a congenital deformity who grew up in a capitalist society -like yours. I am sure she would have dealt with all forms of bullying and discrimination throughout her life, and if these traumatizing events happen very early in her life, they can severely affect her psychological makeup, and leave her vulnerable and directly exposed to the neurosis of thinking about death. If the woman in this example were religious, she can at least take comfort in knowing that an all-powerful being is with her in the face of an unforgiving society, and that He can offer her long lasting rewards for her deeds, however small and insignificant. 

Absent religion, things are much more complicated for the poor woman, she is reduced to an inept element that is trivially easy to replace in a capitalist system, which is characterized by competitiveness and optimal allocation of resources. 

In short, a person with a congenital deformity loses all forms of capitalist competition AND will never be allocated to any useful function at any level of society. So, what kind of consolation does your worldview offer to these people ?

(September 14, 2022 at 7:15 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Have you ever met a woman? I only ask because you don’t seem to know much about them.

Boru

I know that being an experienced simp is something valuable in your culture. Well, not all cultures appreciate simps, you'll be highly revered in the country where I used to live, if you actually never got into a relationship - marriage notwithstanding, of course.

Responses to the bolded bits:

1. Stephen Hawking.

2. Which is why I’ll never live in such a country.

Boru

Edit: ‘simp’ doesn’t apply to me, but it’s adorbs that you think so.

Also, women covering themselves has exactly zero impact on how men view women. The same goes for makeup. If a guy is an out-of-control horndog. Women dressing like ninjas will make no difference. It's also not the job of women to dress a certain way to stave off men it's the job of men who have an issue to get a hold of themselves.

(September 15, 2022 at 1:53 pm)R00tKiT Wrote:

(September 15, 2022 at 1:48 pm)Jehanne Wrote: @R00tKiT

Just because a religious belief is comforting does not make it true.  

Yes, I know. But if a particular lie has no negative effect on your life, and can actually alleviate a lot of your worries and anxieties, it's probably a very good idea to endorse the lie.

Just for the sake of discussion, maybe a better analogy would be to strongly intuitive notions like solidity and ownership. Solids are mostly empty space in reailty. And we seem hardwired to percieve the intangible what is mine versus what belongs to others.