I love it when cathy-click defenders of the pedo ring that is there clergy start drawing comparisons to secular pedos. The one thing they fucking always fail to mention is that those secular pedos don't claim to have a some form of moral authority, as the cathy-lick clergy does.

Yes, there are pedos all over, but when you claim to hold a higher moral authority, you are held to a higher moral standard, by other christers just as much as by atheists.

Besides, whataboutism does absolutely fuck-all to correct the issues within the cathy-lick clergy.

(July 13, 2023 at 7:24 pm)Ravenshire Wrote: I love it when cathy-click defenders of the pedo ring that is there clergy start drawing comparisons to secular pedos. The one thing they fucking always fail to mention is that those secular pedos don't claim to have a some form of moral authority, as the cathy-lick clergy does.

Yes, there are pedos all over, but when claim to hold a higher moral authority, you are held to a higher moral standard, by other christers just as much as by atheists.

Well, that and the Church at large explicitly working to protect them and not their victims.

(July 13, 2023 at 1:52 pm)Nishant Xavier Wrote: Unrepentant child abusers cannot in fact get to Heaven. They go to Hell to be punished for each child they abused, forever and ever and ever. That's the Perfect Justice of a Holy God.

And, edited the above post: silly autocorrect. The second was repeat, not repent. One must intend never to repeat the crime. One must repent of it with one's whole heart. That's Contrition.

“You either have a God who sends child rapists to rape children or you have a God who simply watches it and says, ‘When you’re done, I’m going to punish you.’If I could stop a person from raping a child, I would. That’s the difference between me and your God.” 

― Tracie Harris



Would YOU stop a rape Xavier or not because of the violation of the rapists free will?


What do you think of the quote by Tracie?

Now, as promised, let's come to the 2nd data point, the statistics for Secular Teachers. And what are Priests btw? Nothing but Religious Teachers, i.e. Teachers of Religion. So the analogy is exact. And the stats show that in the same way that Secular Teachers are Teachers of Math, Science etc. and obviously, there is nothing in Math, Science etc that causes them to abuse, neither is there likewise in Christianity or Religion. Let's look at the stats:

2. "Moving molesting teachers from school district to school district is a common phenomenon. And in only 1 percent of the cases do superintendents notify the new school district.[xxxiv] According to Diana Jean Schemo, the term “passing the trash” is the preferred jargon among educators.[xxxv]

Shakeshaft has also determined that 15 percent of all students have experienced some kind of sexual misconduct by a teacher between kindergarten and 12th grade; the behaviors range from touching to forced penetration.[xxxvi] She and Cohan also found that up to 5 percent of teachers sexually abuse children.[xxxvii]"

So did you catch that, 3 sub-divisions within this data point (1) only in 1 percent are the new superintendents notified of the history of abuse (2) 15% of students have experienced sexual misconduct from Teachers, ranging from touching to forced penetration (3) 5% of Teachers are Child Abusers.

So, let's put it all together. I'm going to use Average Figures for Ease of Comparison: 

(1) Catholic Priests: 0.2-1.7 so (0.2%+1.7%)/2=0.95%, which we'll round up as 1%.
(2) Protestant Pastors: 2-3%, so 2.5% on average.
(3) As for Secular School Teachers, the figure is 5%.

And since 5%(Teachers)>2.5%(Pastors)>1%(Priests),

So, the real conclusion is, the cases are worse in Secular Schools than in Protestant Churches, which in turn is less than in the Catholic Church.

Some more stats on Teachers; "Of children in 8th through 11th grade, about 3.5 million students (nearly 7%) surveyed reported having had physical sexual contact from an adult (most often a teacher or coach). The type of physical contact ranged from unwanted touching of their body, all the way up to sexual intercourse. This statistic increases to about 4.5 million children (10%) when it takes other types of sexual misconduct into consideration, such as being shown pornography or being subjected to sexually explicit language or exhibitionism." From: https://childrenstreatmentcenter.com/sex...-teachers/

This is a real endemic that percolates across various sectors of society, but singling out all Priests as abusers is clearly unjust in light of the above. Any more than singling out Secular Teachers would be.

I knew I'd have to keep refuting the strawman, so let me do it again: No, I'm not saying, the percentage is small, therefore it's ok. 1 Child Abused is 1 Child Too Many. Every Child Abuse is a Mortal Sin and a Civil Crime worthy of Eternal Hell-Fire and Legal Punishment. Yet, in light of the above, I don't know what we would call it - "teachophobia" and Anti-Teacher Bigotry? - if anyone claimed most Teachers are Abusers, but for the same reason, it is simply nothing else and nothing but Christophobia and Anti-Catholic Bigotry to say most Priests, let alone Nuns - where such accusations have not even been heard of - are abusers. The data clearly indicates, if anything, Priests and Pastors have done a better job in rooting out such abuses than Secular Teachers.

Finally, please note that the above represents % of accused. Not every person accused is ultimately found guilty. This is best illustrated by the false accusations against Cardinal Pell:

(1) The Cardinal Pell case: Those who followed the case of Aussie Cardinal Pell will remember this. It was the highest ever Churchman, and a Conservative Pro-Life one at that, accused of child abuse. The media were salivating, they had already judged the case, and were just waiting for Pell to be proclaimed guilty. But the court found him innocent.

Here's the event: "Cardinal Pell spent more than a year in solitary confinement in his native Australia after a jury found him guilty in 2018 of assaulting two teenage choirboys in a Melbourne cathedral while he was the city's archbishop in the 1990s. His conviction was overturned by a top Australian court in 2020." From: https://www.washingtonpost.com/obituarie...ual-abuse/

(2) As for those who are guilty but not reported, those will exist anywhere, whether among Clergy or Teachers. It would probably even out with the number wrongly accused but actually innocent. In other words, let's suppose 100 X are abusers, and accused, then it's reported as 100. 5 are truly guilty, but not reported. So, there were actually 105 abusers. But 5 likewise, like Cardinal Pell, are wrongly accused, but in fact innocent. So it would pretty much even out - and just alleging that every Priest is an abuser without one single concrete accusation against him is not credible. 

Everyone has a right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty, i.e. until there is a serious charge against him. The instant there is a serious charge against him, he should be removed from further contact with children. If found guilty, he should be laicized and sent to a Penitentiary.

That's my opinion. But the stats and the facts are clear. Hymn4n, not going to the Theological questions on this thread. Will answer them later.

How many kids abused by men of the cloth are too many?

You have zero tolerance for abortion. What's the tolerance for molesting a minor?

I hope Xavier picks this hill to die on. It's a fast-track ticket to him getting the hammer and everyone rejoicing.

Your 'point' after the number 2 is a direct copy/paste.

I am not going through line by line. But you were advised by an admin not to do this. Now that you can link...that's what you should have done.

If anyone wants to verify - here's the link https://www.catholicleague.org/sexual-ab...essionals/

You play by our rules or you don't get to play. Capeesh?

There's probably a common thread between, for example..teachers..and priests. Something, idk, that gives them implicit authority and familiarity. When you set out to be a rape apologist for your church - you show us that there's really nothing surprising at all about that churches existence or persistence. As not even something so loathed as kiddie fucking would turn people like you away.

Till staff can discuss how to proceed with this OP, this thread is closed.

Thread reopened.