(July 14, 2023 at 10:26 am)Ravenshire Wrote:

(July 13, 2023 at 9:33 pm)Nishant Xavier Wrote: A full metric fuck-ton of lies, bullshit, disingenuous blather, and intellectual dishonesty...

You may want to better consider your audience. The eruptions of mental vomitus you keep spewing may be compelling to you, and others who have already bought into the magic thinking, but to anyone with the smallest bit of reasoned thinking can smell the stench of you're "arguments" at 100 yards.

Or, you can continue to spew your mental sewage without regard, but please don't be surprised by your lack of success in convincing anyone (other than your fellow sheep) that you actually make a good case.

---

Am I the only one, or is this asshole eerily reminiscent of another one...

Indeed his fanatical defence of the church seems way to much like that loser. Especially trying to blame gays for the churches misdeeds

I notice NishX has few thoughts of his own. Just parrots what the church decrees. I suppose that's handy if you don't want to bother thinking for yourself.

Even the church knows better. He parrots what a militant conservative faction within the church tells him. While the church is officially begging for fucking forgiveness, these loons are claiming to be the victims of a grand marxist conspiracy. They're the nuts, for reference, who want to excommunicate biden for beating the living shit out of saint donald john. Poster children for a political religion - quickly becoming the only kind of religion. The next generation's faithful will be shittier than the last generation's, if that can even be imagined.

(July 13, 2023 at 12:31 pm)Nishant Xavier Wrote: If you disagree, pls explain why with reasons. All child abuse is bad and we condemn it. Yet look at the %ages among Parents, Teachers, other Secular people, Clergy in other Demominations, in other Religions etc.

[Edit: the link https://www.catholicleague.org/sexual-ab...essionals/ ]

Well let's start with the fact that you're using information from a pro-Catholic website. That's about as reliable as a brochure from Novartis on why you need more Ritalin in your diet. This is the beating heart of why you have a scandal. You refuse to believe that you have a problem, do nothing about it, and all the while try to take the moral high ground.

The bias in your cited source is trivially easy to demonstrate. Note how it uses out of date newspaper surveys as the source for its "statistics" and only mentions the John Jay report in passing. The John Jay report was a relatively independent study commissioned by the Catholic Church and undertaken by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice. Written just two years before the article that you cite and significantly more thorough than a newspaper survey, it found that 4% of ordained Catholic clergy in the US had accusations of child sexual abuse made against them. Although reliable statistics are difficult to obtain due to the majority of child sexual abuse cases going unreported, 4% is roughly in line with the national average. It should be noted that the 4% figure from the John Jay report represents a minimum, as it relies exclusively on reported accusations, with untold abuse going unreported. But most similar sexual abuse statistics suffer from the same weakness.

The scandal isn't that the Catholic Church has more child abusers than the rest of society. It's that the church claims a higher moral calling, failed that calling, and then rather than do anything moral they instead silenced the victims while enabling the perpetrators, all in the name of protecting their image. For example, amongst the more horrific findings of the Pennsylvania Grand Jury was a child sex ring run by clergy in the Diocese of Pittsburgh that made sadomasochistic child pornography and marked its victims with gold crosses to identify them for other priests to abuse. There was also the priest who kept his position in the church after impregnating a girl and then arranging for an abortion, despite the latter act earning him an automatic excommunication.

You have a scandal because the Catholic Church behaves exactly like you do. Denial, cover up, justification.

What is interesting, and possibly worthy of discussion, is that child abusers within the Catholic Church appear to disproportionately target boys. The John Jay report indicated that boys were 4 times more likely to be abused than girls. This is in stark contrast to the national average, where girls are roughly 3 times more likely to be abused than boys. Assuming these statistics are correct it almost certainly reveals something interesting and horrifying about the culture within the church. I don't know what that is but I'd bet that forcing the clergy into a life of celibacy doesn't help any.

Wait, I need more Ritalin in my diet??

(July 15, 2023 at 12:23 am)Paleophyte Wrote:

(July 13, 2023 at 12:31 pm)Nishant Xavier Wrote: If you disagree, pls explain why with reasons. All child abuse is bad and we condemn it. Yet look at the %ages among Parents, Teachers, other Secular people, Clergy in other Demominations, in other Religions etc.

[Edit: the link https://www.catholicleague.org/sexual-ab...essionals/ ]

Well let's start with the fact that you're using information from a pro-Catholic website. That's about as reliable as a brochure from Novartis on why you need more Ritalin in your diet. This is the beating heart of why you have a scandal. You refuse to believe that you have a problem, do nothing about it, and all the while try to take the moral high ground.

The bias in your cited source is trivially easy to demonstrate. Note how it uses out of date newspaper surveys as the source for its "statistics" and only mentions the John Jay report in passing. The John Jay report was a relatively independent study commissioned by the Catholic Church and undertaken by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice. Written just two years before the article that you cite and significantly more thorough than a newspaper survey, it found that 4% of ordained Catholic clergy in the US had accusations of child sexual abuse made against them. Although reliable statistics are difficult to obtain due to the majority of child sexual abuse cases going unreported, 4% is roughly in line with the national average. It should be noted that the 4% figure from the John Jay report represents a minimum, as it relies exclusively on reported accusations, with untold abuse going unreported. But most similar sexual abuse statistics suffer from the same weakness.

The scandal isn't that the Catholic Church has more child abusers than the rest of society. It's that the church claims a higher moral calling, failed that calling, and then rather than do anything moral they instead silenced the victims while enabling the perpetrators, all in the name of protecting their image. For example, amongst the more horrific findings of the Pennsylvania Grand Jury was a child sex ring run by clergy in the Diocese of Pittsburgh that made sadomasochistic child pornography and marked its victims with gold crosses to identify them for other priests to abuse. There was also the priest who kept his position in the church after impregnating a girl and then arranging for an abortion, despite the latter act earning him an automatic excommunication.

You have a scandal because the Catholic Church behaves exactly like you do. Denial, cover up, justification.

What is interesting, and possibly worthy of discussion, is that child abusers within the Catholic Church appear to disproportionately target boys. The John Jay report indicated that boys were 4 times more likely to be abused than girls. This is in stark contrast to the national average, where girls are roughly 3 times more likely to be abused than boys. Assuming these statistics are correct it almost certainly reveals something interesting and horrifying about the culture within the church. I don't know what that is but I'd bet that forcing the clergy into a life of celibacy doesn't help any.

It's the gays. Never mind the fact you can't the sexuality of a perp from their victim as straight people with a wife and kids can still rape little boys. But no the priests had to be gay because the church needs a scapegoat

(July 15, 2023 at 2:14 am)Helios Wrote: It's the gays. Never mind the fact you can't the sexuality of a perp from their victim as straight people with a wife and kids can still rape little boys. But no the priests had to be gay because the church needs a scapegoat

Nope, but it is peculiar (I know, too small a word) that the Catholic Church seems to have a disproportionate number of same sex child molesters. On an institutional level they're either selecting for or producing boy molesters. Possibly both. I'm sure that there's some good socio-psychological research that could be done on this pathology and even more sure that the church would never agree to it. Because it doesn't have a problem™.

I buy shitty smokes thinking it will help me quit - juries out. Could be something like that. Or maybe a religion which promises redemption - from jesus-...for having sodomized billy, attracts people who want to sodomize billy. Or maybe people with shameful urges believe that study and piety and good religious works will somehow modify all of that. Or maybe predators seek out positions of authority and intimacy with many opportunities to abuse.

Little bit of a-c, and probably tons more, right?

Free Bwian Nishant!

(July 14, 2023 at 5:06 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Even the church knows better.  He parrots what a militant conservative faction within the church tells him.  While the church is officially begging for fucking forgiveness, these loons are claiming to be the victims of a grand marxist conspiracy.  They're the nuts, for reference, who want to excommunicate biden for beating the living shit out of saint donald john.  Poster children for a political religion - quickly becoming the only kind of religion.  The next generation's faithful will be shittier than the last generation's, if that can even be imagined.

The strange thing, while the RCC is too savvy to use the arguments Nishant uses, there's another semi-major religious org that actually does use that exact rhetoric that he uses to defend the Vatican: The Jehovah's Witnesses.




Right down to saying that the Church hates child abusers, but not mentioning the systemic issues that have allowed the problem to keep festering. And, in another video, they attempt to deflect blame by pinning the problem on gay people.




The one thing I'll say in defense of the Roman Catholic Church's abysmal handling of this problem, however: even if their usual treatment of reassigning offending priests to another parish was alarmingly ineffective, it was at least an intended punishment. They may have been more concerned with hushing the issue up, but at least there was some token attempt at dealing with the issue. The Jehovah's Witnesses don't even fucking try. Unless the perp was dumb enough to  try and molest a child in full view of another member, they just leave the issues in Jehovah's hands. And sometimes, as "BCG" found out, they don't even do that.