(October 29, 2023 at 12:07 am)Barry Wrote:

(October 28, 2023 at 11:13 pm)Angrboda Wrote: Your ignorance is not my problem.  FWIW, I suspect something along the lines of Hawking-Hartle is likely.  It at least is more substantial than magic.

But while we're at it, your answer requires that there be a temporal boundary in the past.  Prove it or shut up.

Hi Angryboda
My answer is God, yours seems to be aggression and evasion. “I suspect something along the lines of … is likely” is unconvincing. 
God doesn’t exist in time. God is……”
God bless
Barry

How is it than 'science' is not an answer, but 'God' is?

Boru

(October 28, 2023 at 9:37 pm)Barry Wrote:

(October 28, 2023 at 8:08 pm)LinuxGal Wrote: They assume the atheist forums are mission territory,  like North Korea or some shit, and no one here came out of a religious background.

I’ve answered that. See below. The whole world is Mission territory. The fact that many atheists come from a religious background is irrelevant. 

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire." 

you conveniently left out the bit about hell being “eternal separation from God” and ignored the apostrophes which show “eternal fire” is clearly a metaphor.

Yo Barry, 
Can you explain how souls "go" anywhere after death "immediately" BOTH spatial and temporal concepts, ... in an eternal (timeless) environment. 
You've got to be shitting me. 
No one cares what your Catechism says. We know when the "hell" thing entered Christian dogma, (ie when they made it up).

(October 29, 2023 at 3:54 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(October 29, 2023 at 12:07 am)Barry Wrote: Hi Angryboda
My answer is God, yours seems to be aggression and evasion. “I suspect something along the lines of … is likely” is unconvincing. 
God doesn’t exist in time. God is……”
God bless
Barry

How is it than 'science' is not an answer, but 'God' is?

Boru

Well, God is a lot more comprehensive in scope. But not much different in principle.

(October 29, 2023 at 3:57 am)Ahriman Wrote:

(October 29, 2023 at 3:54 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: How is it than 'science' is not an answer, but 'God' is?

Boru

Well God is a lot more comprehensive in scope. But not much different in principle.

But a answer (especially in a subject like cosmology) should have evidence and be predicative. 'Goddidit' does neither. On the other hand, scientific explanations for the origin of the universe are positively groaning under the weight of evidence and have led to other discoveries.

Boru

(October 28, 2023 at 4:52 pm)Barry Wrote:

(October 28, 2023 at 3:52 am)Ahriman Wrote: If I'm responsible for everything I do, then why do I need God? If God doesn't interfere in my decision-making at all, meaning God does nothing for me, why would I pay any attention to God?

Good question Ahriman. God created humankind for a reason. God didn’t just create us as a huge experiment and then ignore us. Humankind started sinning, thinking they didn’t need God. They thought they knew better. Sinning is doing what we, in our hearts, know is against God”s will. God became man, in Jesus Christ, and came to us to teach us how to live. Jesus gave us the “Greatest Commandment” i.e. “Love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength”. He added “and love your neighbour as yourself”. 
God also gave us free will. So, yes, God doesn’t interfere with your decision-making”. But God gave you life and made you in “his own image and likeness”. A spiritual being with a human soul. 
You don’t have to pay any attention to God. Christians believe our souls are eternal and that we go to heaven or hell. Hell is a choice. It’s for people who choose to ignore God in their life. As a Roman Catholic I do not believe one has to be a Christian to go to heaven, but we have to do God’s will. It is written in our hearts.
God gave us the Ten Commandments, the Bible, and the Catholic Church, to help us turn back to him. 
90% of baptised Catholics do not attend weekly Mass in Europe and Australia. 80% in USA. They are not really Catholics. The Catholic Church has had a lot of problems, child abuse and the cover up being a terrible example. But it is, nevertheless, the “one, true Church”.
The only way we can live a truly happy life is by loving God and doing his will. That is why we should “pay attention to God”. Money, power, sex, material things never make anyone truly happy. Our secular society is a miserable society.
I am waging my own campaign in the Catholic Church to try to make it an evangelising Church, but my humble efforts fall on deaf ears. Nevertheless it is a gift from God to help us  reach true happiness both on earth and eternally. 
God is a mystery, but God exists.

God also gave us free will.

When does god actually give this “free will”?

I was forced to be born

I was forced with the parents I have

I was forced to be born in this part of the world

I had my penis mutilated days after birth.


Can I make a choice god didn’t want me to make?

(October 29, 2023 at 1:54 am)Barry Wrote:

(October 29, 2023 at 1:07 am)The Valkyrie Wrote: Hi Barry,
I've noticed your passive-aggressive responses to others and your attempts to speak down to them in a way to make them seem smaller to you and to make yourself feel more important.

I've also noticed you play the victim when people don't play your game.  It's a common religious trait, one you may grow out of.  This is why you have accuse me of "verbal abuse", something that is not in any of my responses (yet) and also can't happen in written form.

Also, referring to someone by their preferred name is an, "I will, IF".  It's a matter of courtesy, something many of the religious lack, I know.

I've corrected you.  Have courtesy.  Many here are FAR more tolerant than me.

Science doesn't know the full story.

You're quibbling over terms.

No, you don't know.  You have CLAIMS that you "BELIEVE".

Look up, "The Big Bang Theory".

No, not the TV show.

I'm not going to be strung along by, "please explain", rvery time you want to draw out a pointless discussion because you're looking for a "gotcha" moment.

Everyone in the world with even a modicum of scientific education knows the basics.  Those who don't are simply lacking in a decent education.

I do apologise for referring to "dark age beliefs".

You are correct there.  They're predominantly Bronze Age.

Thanks for playing.

Hi Valkyrie
Your name is very long, I wasn’t being disrespectful. As for your “verbal abuse”, I apologise for that comment, I confused you with Angryboda who has been very abusive. I’m not offended by “dark age beliefs”. 
So peace be with you.
As for the Big Bang, 14 billion years ago. It was discovered by a Catholic priest scientist. What caused it? Things don’t just happen. My answer is either God, or some previous action from God. What do you say?
I have a “decent education”, much higher than 95% of people, but being educated doesn’t stop anyone from being wrong. Or unlikeable. I know I can be guilty of both. Academics can disagree. Very eminent scientists are Catholic and atheist.
I won’t respond to your psychoanalysis of me. You may know more than I about such matters. 
I don’t mind all the abuse directed at me. Christ was crucified for speaking the truth. Almost all his apostles were martyred. 
I’m trying to get the Catholic Church in Australia to change some of its ways, and have been abused and criticised for that.
The last 4 popes have called for a “New Evangelization”. But nothing is being done. That is my personal mission and my main target is the 90% of Catholics in my own parish community who don’t attend Mass and are in effect atheists.
I have time to chat on this forum because nobody in my own parish is listening. The priest and his “leadership team” are too busy “rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic” to consider making any changes. 
God bless you
Barry

I’m betting you’ll dance around this question 

If like you say

Things don’t just happen.

Where did your god come from?

(October 29, 2023 at 6:31 am)h4ym4n Wrote:

(October 28, 2023 at 4:52 pm)Barry Wrote: Good question Ahriman. God created humankind for a reason. God didn’t just create us as a huge experiment and then ignore us. Humankind started sinning, thinking they didn’t need God. They thought they knew better. Sinning is doing what we, in our hearts, know is against God”s will. God became man, in Jesus Christ, and came to us to teach us how to live. Jesus gave us the “Greatest Commandment” i.e. “Love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength”. He added “and love your neighbour as yourself”. 
God also gave us free will. So, yes, God doesn’t interfere with your decision-making”. But God gave you life and made you in “his own image and likeness”. A spiritual being with a human soul. 
You don’t have to pay any attention to God. Christians believe our souls are eternal and that we go to heaven or hell. Hell is a choice. It’s for people who choose to ignore God in their life. As a Roman Catholic I do not believe one has to be a Christian to go to heaven, but we have to do God’s will. It is written in our hearts.
God gave us the Ten Commandments, the Bible, and the Catholic Church, to help us turn back to him. 
90% of baptised Catholics do not attend weekly Mass in Europe and Australia. 80% in USA. They are not really Catholics. The Catholic Church has had a lot of problems, child abuse and the cover up being a terrible example. But it is, nevertheless, the “one, true Church”.
The only way we can live a truly happy life is by loving God and doing his will. That is why we should “pay attention to God”. Money, power, sex, material things never make anyone truly happy. Our secular society is a miserable society.
I am waging my own campaign in the Catholic Church to try to make it an evangelising Church, but my humble efforts fall on deaf ears. Nevertheless it is a gift from God to help us  reach true happiness both on earth and eternally. 
God is a mystery, but God exists.

God also gave us free will.

When does god actually give this “free will”?

I was forced to be born

I was forced with the parents I have

I was forced to be born in this part of the world

I had my penis mutilated days after birth.


Can I make a choice god didn’t want me to make?

Actually no, you can't, because God doesn't care what you "choose" to do. Life is like a "choose your own adventure" book. There are choices, that seemingly lead to different outcomes, but in the end, it's all scripted.

(October 28, 2023 at 10:18 pm)Barry Wrote:

(October 28, 2023 at 10:06 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Barry, who thinks that the world just happened one day?  Really give this some thought.

Hi o Grand one, nice to hear from you.
God could have, or taken 14 billion years. Or one trillion trillion years.  6 in Genesis is most unlikely. Time is irrelevant to God. 
How do you think it began? Really give this some thought. 
The easy answer is God. But then we are answerable to a higher power. And our increasingly secular world doesn’t like that option. 
Hence atheism is rife. 
God bless
Barry

  Excellent.  I'm glad you realized that it is -only- people who believe in creator gods who think that the world just happened one day.  Personally, I think the world began as part of a giant disk of gas and debris swirling around the sun.  Gravity, not any gods. Those would be created billions of years after the fact. Linear time and all that.

You seem to want to keep returning to this well of answerability to god. Are you prepared to be answerable for your god? Way I see it, whether god exists is irrelevant to me. It's you and yours that have to carry that burden. Like this burden above of complaining about secularism. The first secularists were believers. The idea that human governments should be run for people according to peoples needs and not for gods according to gods wants doesn't really have anything to do with atheism or whether gods exist. It continues to be prudent in either case. You, though, are going to end up making yourself responsible for your alleged gods alleged position on that matter. Can you sell it, or are you just going to threaten anyone who doesn't agree with something you can't explain?

(October 29, 2023 at 12:07 am)Barry Wrote:

(October 28, 2023 at 11:13 pm)Angrboda Wrote: Your ignorance is not my problem.  FWIW, I suspect something along the lines of Hawking-Hartle is likely.  It at least is more substantial than magic.

But while we're at it, your answer requires that there be a temporal boundary in the past.  Prove it or shut up.

Hi Angryboda
My answer is God, yours seems to be aggression and evasion. “I suspect something along the lines of … is likely” is unconvincing. 
God doesn’t exist in time. God is……”
God bless
Barry

God not existing in time is irrelevant as to whether there is a temporal boundary or not. So you've still got to show that.

As to whether my answer is convincing or not, it doesn't have to be, as your argument is that there is no alternative to your answer, and thus yours is right. As an argument from ignorance, it requires there be no other possibility.

I haven't evaded anything. Your answer appears to be to engage in side chatter and trash talk that is false and essentially a form of ad hominem argument.

(October 29, 2023 at 12:16 am)Barry Wrote:

(October 28, 2023 at 11:36 pm)Angrboda Wrote: Oh look, you've found a friend.  And he likes fucking boys in the ass so you should get along swell.

Hi Angryboda,
Your aggression is matched by your evasion. We are all looking for truth. You don’t seem comfortable with it. 
God bless
Barry

The only person showing an aversion to truth here is the one engaged in ad hominem.